Full Spectrum DIY guide

[BeanAnimal]

It is believed that corals as a photosynthetic colony can only use so much before it is just there in excess.

Well it is not "just there in excess" like a spare burger that nobody wants to eat. At some point of over exposure, the corals become photoinhibited. That is, too much light and they coral may either shut down for protection or become damages. In minor cases, the coral is unhappy after it has been photo saturated for too long. This may affect growth and/or looks. in more severe cases the zooxanthellae may bail out to get away from the light (coral "bleaching").

 

[dsdaley77]

What I meant was that there is only so much a coral can beneficially use. Sorry but the jury is still out regarding LEDs, your points seems sound but do does his. Wish you'd just read it to explain how I'm misinterpreting what he said or if he is Full of crap as you earlier suggested the possibility of. Thx

 

[BeanAnimal]

Correct, there is only so much light that can be used.

Reading what your "manufacturer" posted, it appears that the use of the words "full spectrum white" and "total spectrum" are the point of confusion. I am not sure what context he is speaking from (nor does it really matter).

As I said, the "white" LEDs are simply "blue" LEDs painted with a phosphor coating. To say anything more about their spectral output, one would need to see a plot showing what wavelengths the phosphors are being driven at. With a combination of emitters and broadband phosphors, I am sure that it is possible to approach a true "full spectrum" output.

My point was that we need to be careful when we discuss the topic and not confuse mixing single wavelength LEDs to achieve percieved "full spectrum" with true "full spectrum". With regard to what our corals require... that is a hot subject that is being hashed out in numerous threads and venues.

Does that help?

 

[dsdaley77]

Yes another quick question, do you feel or think that a single white 10-12k will have more spectral wavelengths than say a single r g or b? If I use a combination of what both of you said I extract that while whites have other wavelengths required to make white, how much and what wavelengths can differ from bulb to bulb depending on source, intent of use and so on and therefore it is not safe to assume that any given white led can provide the nessesary full spectrums to grow corals on thier own. Based on what you said, and by the way I am very happy for this discussion as it can only help our hobby to clarify new technology, what would the basic differences be between a 6700 white and a 12000 k white. If all whites are blues with different coatings of phosphors than how do those phosphors play a part in providing specific light(wavelengths not spectrums, and in a side note so as to define all for ease of understanding to all that read, wavelengths are specific levels of color present and spectrum is the collection of those wavelengths nessesary to make a secondary color, right?) to our corals and thier symbiotic friends?

 

[BeanAnimal]

I am not sure I can narrow down exactly what your question is, as (not to be rude) but your entire post is a single run-on sentance. I kinda gave up after the second line and skimmed the rest.

With regard to the "differences", it is hard to say. Different chips may use different phosphors and/or the same phosphor in a thicker or thinner coatings. Varying the thickness of the phosphor coating allows more or less of the blue (or whatever the underlying color) is to shine through and less phosphor to interact, changing the rendered color. In the same context, each underlying color itself will differ between manufacturer and even within a manufacturers own lots. That is why binning is so important.

 

[PolyReef]

BA finally you explain nicely how LEDs work. thank you.
Anyway would you think about those lights?
http://www.orbitec.com/store/led_panels.html
http://www.orbitec.com/sunbow.html
And sorry guys I bring devil back to this forum.

 

[BeanAnimal]

BA finally you explain nicely how LEDs work. thank you.
Anyway would you think about those lights?
http://www.orbitec.com/store/led_panels.html
http://www.orbitec.com/sunbow.html
And sorry guys I bring devil back to this forum.

Really? Poly, everything you post is in the spirit of causing trouble. I just don't get it.

 

[PolyReef]

What trouble? just asking you what you think about it.
I was just surprised how expensive those LEDs are.

Happy reefing

 

[BeanAnimal]

The questions are the words that are followed by a question mark (?). As far as your use of the word (single), 5 is not singular. Not to be rude but your a j*ck*ss. If you didn't want to try and be my English teacher, then you shouldn't have. Try telling your wife "not to be mean, but that dress makes you look fat."A much better post would have been....
"

Sir,

I honestly could not follow your question due to the lack of sentance structure and the wandering context. Several of your posts have had an air of combativeness and now you are calling me names. Relax a litte, there is no need for name calling or personal attacks. I have attempted contribute to this thread and to kindly answer your questions.

You clearly (as evidenced by your other posts) are capable of forming proper sentances. You will find that many (most) folks don't bother reading (let alone answering) posts without punctuation.

 

[BeanAnimal]

What trouble? just asking you what you think about it.
I was just surprised how expensive those LEDs are.

Happy reefing

Based on your history of posts, I somehow I don't believe you but will give you the benefit of the doubt

The company you linked has attempted to game the US Patent system to strong arm LED vendors into paying them royalties for patent infringement. They in essence have claimed they hold a patent(s) that basically covers all controllable and/or fan cooled LED lighting fixtures used over marine aquaria.

Here is a decent thread that covers some of the latest developments and part of the original lawsuit against PFO lighting, the fact that AI pays them royalties (they had no choice if they wanted to sell LEDs), etc.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2063364http://www.reefcentral.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2063364

 

[Tickle]

I guess from manufacturer's words and other experience not related to reefing I have developed an understanding that white light needs multiple spectrums to become visible as white. For instance, I "have a friend" who grows medical marijuana here in AZ and uses only warm and cool white LEDs to grow his crops. His medicine has been tested by labs and is perfectly comparable with growers medicines that were grown using MH and HPS bulbs. Now I learned in school long ago that they (plants) don't need every spectrum of light to flourish but do need multiple wavelengths to remain healthy and strong. So how can one achieve a healthy, strong, fully mature, viable plant from just white LEDs if they only contain one wave length? It would lead me to believe that white LEDs are indeed full spectrum.

Id just like to add that i lost another one of my blue chips ( entirely my fault ) and am just running 3 14k and 2 10k chips. My corals look very upset with the whites at full blast. They look somewhat better around 70% where i normally run my whites, but they dont look anywhere near what they did.

the phone in my hands

 

[PolyReef]

No idea why you are thinking I'm starting some trouble.
I didn't even follow lately this legal issues between those companies.
And honestly I was thinking this issue was over long time ago.
And what I was hearing from people in reefing industry this company doesn't have time to bother with companies who supply led's to our hobby.
And I don't think accusing me is very nice thing to do.
i Just try have a nice conversation with fellow reefer.

And yes I have a few strong conversation with people who.......... but this is not the time to discuss this just nice talk about LEDs

 

[BeanAnimal]

Yes, you need some of the peaks that the blue are providing. To that end, many of us have found that even with our "crisp white" Metal Halides, that we get better growth and health with the addition of an actinic suppliment.

 

[Nanofreak79]

BA finally you explain nicely how LEDs work. thank you.
Anyway would you think about those lights?
http://www.orbitec.com/store/led_panels.html
http://www.orbitec.com/sunbow.html
And sorry guys I bring devil back to this forum.

Go away:wave:

 

[BeanAnimal]

No idea why you are thinking I'm starting some trouble.

1) Our interactions in other threads?
2) Your first sentance "And sorry guys I bring devil back to this forum."?
3) Posting a link to an orbitec desk lamp and $10,000 LED panels?

I didn't even follow lately this legal issues between those companies. And honestly I was thinking this issue was over long time ago.
And what I was hearing from people in reefing industry this company doesn't have time to bother with companies who supply led's to our hobby.

The PFO lawsuit is over because they went out of business. For a company that "does not have time to bother" they certainly appear to have spent a lot of time and money in court trying to profit from the low hanging fruit. It is my understanding that AI pays them a royalty for every fixture sold and that they have appealed their patent denials. The thread I posted is a good read, and likely the better place for continued discussion

 

[PolyReef]

1) everybody has their own opinion.
2) This one was a matter of speech
3) yes price is very high.
That was my question why they are so expensive?
I understand that using them for research purposes.
Another question what is different between their LEDs and Led's available for us?

And for the record I don't have any financial interest selling or making LED Lamps....

 

[necco]

Is it possible to control each color individually to dial in a truly custom spectrum? I know that's 8 dimmers but if I'm gonna think about doin it might as well go big

I do that, every color with its own driver. Also all controlled from my Apex

14 RB
14 B
12 CW
10 NW
10 V
4 G
4 CY

 

[necco]

Well first off I would just like to state that I am no expert. I look at things in a logical way.

From my own research Red promoted Algea growth, and thats something that I did not want. The whites do have some color in the higher NM range. One thing to note though that many people do not take into consideration is NM and depth (which I'm happy so see someone posted that chart). Coral reefs can grow no deeper than 150m from my research, and from that chart you can see the only colors that penatrate in that NM range. What corals those are I do not know.

Cost was high for me, because I'm a poor reefer :sad2:. Not really sure though, you'll have to do the math getting the info from rapidled.

The Apex is awsome, but I have no experience with manual dimming knobs. IMO individual dimming is the only way to go.

The color I have my fixture set to at the moment can be seen from my fixture mounting post that I had made in the rapidled sponsor forum.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2203080

 

[Blayz77]

at some point this 120g sitting here is gonna need some lights when i get it up and running. i have pretty much decided on using led's and was considering some pre build units like the radions or something comparible.

having said that im always looking for something new to tinker with and the idea of possibly doing a diy light setup sparks a little interest. realistically what would be a ball park estimate for a diy setup for a 48" x 24" x 24".

i read the thread a couple days ago i dont remember if it was mentioned where you guys pick up your supplies, is there a favorite spot? and also seem to recall saying it was more costly or something to be able to dial each color independantly. what would be needed for that and how much cost would that add, also does this add a lot more difficulty to making a diy?

 

[necco]

at some point this 120g sitting here is gonna need some lights when i get it up and running. i have pretty much decided on using led's and was considering some pre build units like the radions or something comparible.

having said that im always looking for something new to tinker with and the idea of possibly doing a diy light setup sparks a little interest. realistically what would be a ball park estimate for a diy setup for a 48" x 24" x 24".

i read the thread a couple days ago i dont remember if it was mentioned where you guys pick up your supplies, is there a favorite spot? and also seem to recall saying it was more costly or something to be able to dial each color independantly. what would be needed for that and how much cost would that add, also does this add a lot more difficulty to making a diy?

I was told 48 LEDs would work for my shallow reef 36"x24"x18". I did add more for color. You could email or call Rapidled, they were very helpful.

I think the popular places to buy are -

Rapidled
Reeftanklights
I got my Cyans from Luxonstar

For independant control you would need additional drivers. The drivers that I have were around $27-$34 each. If your going to DIY, then the extra work for independant control would be minimal. Manual dimming would just need more potentiometers and wall worts.

Not sure if your familar the Neptune Apex controller. Besides the ton of features and things that it does for your aquarium. It can also control the intensity of your LEDs throughout the day. Set them and forget them. You could also produce some cool effects like clouds and lightning storms. Takes a little time getting use to the programming though, and you can always get help on the Neptune sponsor forum.