Full Spectrum DIY guide

[chrishet]

Here are a few shots from that build I was referring to above...sorry if I offend anyone...and credit goes out to Clive Bentley for this excellent build and these photos.

As I mentioned above, I am thinking I will go with a 3 cluster design over 36 inches, except there will be 2 OCW stars per cluster instead of 1.

 

[Blayz77]

very nice, isnt that a cute litte heatsink! lol j/k. i was thinking about using the 3ups myself but i think i wanna do cool white instead of nutral. however i would like to see a shot of this over a tank to get an idea of what it might look like.

by the way where did everyone go? i didnt get the memo to the secret hideout lol

 

[chrishet]

Thx for the reply Blayz...I can't wait to see that new heat sink, should be here tomorrow. I read somewhere that the architect of this design also worked on the AI design...it is functional for sure, that part I like! My plan is to trim it up a bit more.

I have no basis for selecting Cool Whites over Neutral Whites - just advice from the vendor.

Its not a pic but here is a short vid of the SketchUp of my tank/stand/light.

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/gNgHBHZy3cM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[Blayz77]

very cool, the nice thing about the 3ups is the space they save. one question i have is what kinda drivers are you using for this and what amps do you plan on using? how are you going to do your strings/per driver etc. im looking for some details to give me a better idea on what i need in terms of how many drivers i might need.

 

[chrishet]

very cool, the nice thing about the 3ups is the space they save. one question i have is what kinda drivers are you using for this and what amps do you plan on using? how are you going to do your strings/per driver etc. im looking for some details to give me a better idea on what i need in terms of how many drivers i might need.

Thx...definitley a work in progress! The drivers this particular vendor uses are made by Inventronics

75w 700mA for 32 Royal Blue
75w 700mA for 18 Neutral White
75w 700mA for 18 True Violets
40w 700mA for 6 OCW

http://www.inventronics-co.com/uploads/DS-EUC-075SxxxDT 20110114 I.pdf

http://www.inventronics-co.com/uploads/DS-EUC-040SxxxDS 20110114 E.pdf

 

[Blayz77]

i dunno if you know the answer or not but i would like to start my build and order very soon lol but there is a lot im unaware of. lets see if i can ask while making sense lol.

i understand that you are using a 75w 700ma driver and that according to the website it says it can do 31 xpg/xpe leds. are you choosing to run these at 700ma or is this the max that it can go? or if you can go higher like 900ma how does this effect the number of leds?

also lets say i want to use the xm-L leds that can go to 3000ma. i have no intention of going that high but i was looking at the 120w inventronics driver and considering running xm-L leds somewhere around 900-1500ma. considering the website says u can do i think 16 xm-L at 2100ma if i drive the leds much lower like say 1500 does this mean i can use more leds on the same driver?

also i wonder if the the kelvin rating has anythign to do with the amount of milliamps you drive the leds at. is a led with 700ma going to be say 5000k and a led with 1500k going to be more bright like a 6500K. or does this just prolong led life?

i dont know if i am making any sense lol?

 

[Blayz77]

on my build i was thinking of doing somethign like this.. what i would like to achieve is to replicate a 250 metal halide around 14k. below is what my core leds would be roughly.

makers 18" heatsink

12 - cool white cree xm-L ~6500k
3 - nuetral white cree xm-L ~5000k
24 - royal blue cree xt-e 450-455nm
6 - ocw 470nm 495nm 660nm
6 - tv 390nm -430nm
4 - moonlights (not sure which led to use for this)

i was considering adding a couple other colors for flavor/fun but am unsure if i should

3 blue 470nm
3 green 530nm
3 amber 585-595nm

so in your opinion how would you rig this up in terms of drivers which would you choose and at what amps.

 

[Nanofreak79]

Please critique this setup for a 135g 72" X 18" X 25"deep tank:

39 - RB(36 on Driver A, rest on Driver C)
42 - 4500k(36 on Driver B, rest on Driver C)
4 - Red(Driver C)
12 - Blue(Driver C)
12 - UV(Driver D/moonlights)
12 - Actinic(Driver D/moonlights)

All dimmable via reef angel, all with 60 degree optics

Hello, I suggest not putting blues and whites on the same driver. The other issue I see is your using neutral whites, which is good, but you'll need at least a 2:1 or more blue ratio in order to achieve proper color. Without the proper ratio, you'll end up turning that white string wayyyy down to fix the problem. I would put the red and cool blue LEDs on the same driver, and group with a cyan or turquoise. If you group those three tightly together, and do 8-10 of those clusters, I think that should work. If you would like independent control over those colors, and would like to add more cool blues, you could still cluster them, and separate the driver function. As far as the UV/TV you do not want to use those for moonlights, there too bright and will affect fish and coral. Also having all those blues will do the same as far as too much light. You do still need those colors added, but keep them separate. Make sure to check your top ma running thought the TV's and the exotics, as those run at a much lower ma.

 

[Nanofreak79]

i dunno if you know the answer or not but i would like to start my build and order very soon lol but there is a lot im unaware of. lets see if i can ask while making sense lol.

i understand that you are using a 75w 700ma driver and that according to the website it says it can do 31 xpg/xpe leds. are you choosing to run these at 700ma or is this the max that it can go? or if you can go higher like 900ma how does this effect the number of leds?

also lets say i want to use the xm-L leds that can go to 3000ma. i have no intention of going that high but i was looking at the 120w inventronics driver and considering running xm-L leds somewhere around 900-1500ma. considering the website says u can do i think 16 xm-L at 2100ma if i drive the leds much lower like say 1500 does this mean i can use more leds on the same driver?

also i wonder if the the kelvin rating has anythign to do with the amount of milliamps you drive the leds at. is a led with 700ma going to be say 5000k and a led with 1500k going to be more bright like a 6500K. or does this just prolong led life?

i dont know if i am making any sense lol?

If you drive the LEDs lower, you basically prolong life IMO, and put out less light. Using the inventronics drivers are not like the meanwells. They are set at certain watts etc. to achieve a certain ma, you need two pots. You take one pot and set it at desired ma you want to max out at, and use the second to fine tune in between that set amount. You can still only use so many LEDs per driver, depending on voltage, watts and ma etc. using different kelvin ratings has no real effect on ma used to drive the LEDs, although as you see with many there are max amounts, and you want to stay within those. Hope this helps ya!

 

[Blayz77]

If you drive the LEDs lower, you basically prolong life IMO, and put out less light. Using the inventronics drivers are not like the meanwells. They are set at certain watts etc. to achieve a certain ma, you need two pots. You take one pot and set it at desired ma you want to max out at, and use the second to fine tune in between that set amount. You can still only use so many LEDs per driver, depending on voltage, watts and ma etc. using different kelvin ratings has no real effect on ma used to drive the LEDs, although as you see with many there are max amounts, and you want to stay within those. Hope this helps ya!

ok thx nanofreak, i was aware if you underdrive leds u get longer life and vise versa and in general its better to stay under the max rating of the led. however when you say 2 pots what is this or rather what are you calling a pot?

when it comes to drivers which do you feel is a better driver meanwell,inventronics,other?

i know you can only use a certain number of leds per driver, my question is say you have a driver that can do 16 leds at 2100 amps as an example, well if i drive them at 900ma instead can i use more then 16 leds for that driver?

and when u said kelvin rating has no effect on ma, my question was does ma have an effect on kelvin. im asking if you take say 6500k led and drive it at 500ma will it be like a 5000k or if you drive it at 1500ma will it then be like an 8k? or does the kelvin stay the same no matter what ma you use?

sorry if this is confusing, mayby im just not getting it lol which is possible. im just trying to get a better understanding.

 

[Nanofreak79]

ok thx nanofreak, i was aware if you underdrive leds u get longer life and vise versa and in general its better to stay under the max rating of the led. however when you say 2 pots what is this or rather what are you calling a pot?

Pots are potentiometer's, they make adjustments to the driver. They basically are knobs that turn to increase/decrease power or intensity of the LEDs. You can use these when not using things such as an apex or reefkeeper etc.

when it comes to drivers which do you feel is a better driver meanwell,inventronics,other?

It's personal preference really. I prefer the inventronics over meanwells, but have used both. I've also used the cheaper maxwellen drivers with good results.

i know you can only use a certain number of leds per driver, my question is say you have a driver that can do 16 leds at 2100 amps as an example, well if i drive them at 900ma instead can i use more then 16 leds for that driver?

It basically all has to add up. So you have a certain forward voltage of the driver, and set amount the LEDs can take as well. If you look at the data sheets for particular driver, as well as the LEDs being used you can figure out with a little math the amount of LEDs you can safely use. Basically there are 1000ma in 1 amp. Ma is just the amount of current your allowing to flow through the LEDs.

and when u said kelvin rating has no effect on ma, my question was does ma have an effect on kelvin. im asking if you take say 6500k led and drive it at 500ma will it be like a 5000k or if you drive it at 1500ma will it then be like an 8k? or does the kelvin stay the same no matter what ma you use?

No, it stays the same.

sorry if this is confusing, mayby im just not getting it lol which is possible. im just trying to get a better understanding.

 

[Blayz77]

ok thx nano, i think i understand a little bit better now let me test myself lol so lets use the 16 xml at 2100w using a 120w inventronics driver. 2100x16 =33,600ma. so am i correct in saying as long as i do not exceed 120w worth of led or go over 33k ma i should be safe? for example if i used 24 xm-L at 1.2ma = 28,800ma totalling 72w of leds?

ok so the dimming knob is what you call a pot, thx for the clarification. i do like the visual aspect of the inventronics drivers as they match the heatsinks =)

im glad that ma or does not have an effect on the kelvin thats one less thing to worry about lol. kelvin is what it is gotcha.

my new layout seems to be looking something like
12 nw
28 rb
4 ocw
6 tv
2 warm or nuetral being drivin as low as possible like 100-150mn for moonlights? still not sure what to do for moonlights its either gonna be this or blue color. what do you think?

 

[Nanofreak79]

ok thx nano, i think i understand a little bit better now let me test myself lol so lets use the 16 xml at 2100w using a 120w inventronics driver. 2100x16 =33,600ma. so am i correct in saying as long as i do not exceed 120w worth of led or go over 33k ma i should be safe? for example if i used 24 xm-L at 1.2ma = 28,800ma totalling 72w of leds?

No, you could still only do 16 LEDs. If you want to run more you have to run them in parallel strings, instead of in series. With that driver you could potentially run 48 Xpg's or e I think. It's best to look at there data sheet for each driver.

ok so the dimming knob is what you call a pot, thx for the clarification. i do like the visual aspect of the inventronics drivers as they match the heatsinks =)

I think the inventronics seem well built, or more solid than meanwells. JMO

im glad that ma or does not have an effect on the kelvin thats one less thing to worry about lol. kelvin is what it is gotcha.

my new layout seems to be looking something like
12 nw
28 rb
4 ocw
6 tv
2 warm or nuetral being drivin as low as possible like 100-150mn for moonlights? still not sure what to do for moonlights its either gonna be this or blue color. what do you think?

Skip the blue, and go with your white. It's way more natural for the fish and coal. Really it should be so dim, you can barely see into the tank IMO.

 

[Blayz77]

ok white for moonlights it is! was my little math equation above correct? or was it a massive fail lol. math never was my favorite subject =)

 

[Blayz77]

also where is a good spot to check out rebel leds? i was gonna use cree and i still might. but i read that rebel leds have a better color rendering.

 

[Blayz77]

ok so i found a website that has some rebel leds. i am curious what your opinion would be on this. since you can have this site basically custom tri stars like the ocw. which one would you prefer and why?

ocw from led group buy = 470/495/660

custom ocw using philips rebel leds = ~470 to 480/~495 to 505/~650-665 (based on using the philips rebel true cool blue/cyan-turquoise/deep red color options)

they seem at a glance to be roughly the same color spectrum. the down side being the custom option will cost 2x as much. but what i find interesting is the base you can choose to have them mount the leds too. here is a link to see what im talking about. the 3 leds can be mounted very very close to each other which is nice.

http://shop.stevesleds.com/3-up-Tristar-Connected-Wiring-AntiDisco-Tristar-AntiDisco.htm

so which would you pick if price was a non issue, and why.

 

[bhazard451]

The problem with 3-ups, is that you can't use 80-90 degree optics. 60 degrees provides a very narrow beam, and would just promote spotlighting.

You would need to run them without optics, but it would only work well in a canopy.

 

[Blayz77]

while initially this will go over my 50g it will end up in my 120 which does have a canopy. even so this unit will only be about 6" above the water and as i understand i will not need to use optics at that distance.

 

[Nanofreak79]

The problem with 3-ups, is that you can't use 80-90 degree optics. 60 degrees provides a very narrow beam, and would just promote spotlighting.

You would need to run them without optics, but it would only work well in a canopy.

^ I'm with him on this one. I don't use optics on any of my builds. I don't think there necessary unless your going more than 24". You would have to hang a unit with 60* optics very far up to avoid cooking your stuff, and to get good coverage.

 

[Blayz77]

i agree as well, which is why i dont plan on using any... i dont recall saying i was gonna use any unless i missed something?