FW dip success

[manderx]

then you got lucky. it's about the osmotic potential of DI water. DI causes cells to burst. i remember from high school biology where we put blood in tapwater and also pure water and watched under a microscope. the DI caused the blood cells to burst.

i know you won't believe me though, so go ahead and ask on ron's forum.

why do you feel the need to use pure water for dipping anyway? what is in your tapwater other than chlorine that would be of concern for such a short period? most people use DI because they are afraid of algae outbreaks. not exactly a pressing issue for dipping.


edit: what i mean by reactive is that water is called the univeral solvent by grade school science classes around the world. the more pure it is, the more 'solvent' it becomes. that's why they don't recommend storing DI in a pressure tank.

 

[jjthomps]

Manderx is right on at least one point. the others I don't know enough about the say.

Water is the universal solvent. It dissolves almost anything given enough time. Especially when it is free of TDS. RO/DI water will dissolve many minerals very freely, and will dissolve metals given enough time. Dissolving the weakest/softest first.

How that relates to cells and more importantly clams, I don't know.

There would be no ill effects to using the reject water from the RO, has he has stated. The only concern is chlorine, and the carbon prefilters on a TFC membrane RO system will remove the chlorine. The object is to use desalinized water, it doesn't have to be RO. So to be safe I would use the waste water. Test the pH though, as this water can be very high in TDS.

 

[OrionN]

then you got lucky. it's about the osmotic potential of DI water. DI causes cells to burst. i remember from high school biology where we put blood in tap water and also pure water and watched under a microscope. the DI caused the blood cells to burst.

i know you won't believe me though, so go ahead and ask on ron's forum.

why do you feel the need to use pure water for dipping anyway? what is in your tap water other than chlorine that would be of concern for such a short period? most people use DI because they are afraid of algae outbreaks. not exactly a pressing issue for dipping.


edit: what i mean by reactive is that water is called the univeral solvent by grade school science classes around the world. the more pure it is, the more 'solvent' it becomes. that's why they don't recommend storing DI in a pressure tank.

I was the initial person who posted on 'pinched mantle disease' and the initial person treated and document the success of dipping clams with this disease and cure them of it.. If you don't believe me just do a search and read about it here on Reefcentral, Reefs.org or Reefland boards. In my observation of these diseased clams in my tank I felt that the pathogen is a surface infection, not internal infection, thus fresh water dip will likely cure this disease.
Unprotected cells (of these pathogens) exposed to tap water, RO water or RO/DI water will busted. That is what we wanted. The clams on the other hand being a larger organism, will be much more resistance to the effect of fresh water (tap, RO or RO/DI). The clams will be stressed but will not die. That is why I dip clams in fresh water, namely to kill the tiny organism that cause this disease, stressed the clams but not kill them. I did not use tap water because I cannot easily just remove chlorine from it. I have a ready supply of RO wate so I use it.

A few facts that many people may not know:

NSW have about 35 ppt (35000 ppm)impurities in it.
Intracellular environment is about 9 ppt (9000 ppm). This is pretty constant in all living organism. Human, fish, worm, Bacterial....
Tap water have on average about 200 ppm
RO water is about 10 ppm
RO/DI water is about 1 ppm

The osmotic pressure generated from putting the clams (thus the pathogens also) in tap water is 8800 (9000-200), in RO water is 8900 (9000-10) and in RO/DI water is 8999. All of these numbers is about the same and will be effective. Tap water is not use because of the chlorine. I have RO water readily available.
The point I am making here is that it is not detrimental to use RO/DI or RO water. Over six months , I must dipped all my clams hundreds of time. I never even adjust for pH, just temperature. I have very little mortality.

BTW, let me assure you that I have at least as much training and education as Dr. Ron on the basic biological process of life.

Minh Nguyen

 

[OrionN]

....
edit: what i mean by reactive is that water is called the univeral solvent by grade school science classes around the world. the more pure it is, the more 'solvent' it becomes. that's why they don't recommend storing DI in a pressure tank.

I think you kinda mis-understand this concept. All it mean is that water is a weakly polar molecue which dissolves everything at least a little bit. That is all. While this characteristic of water (among others) is very important for life, water is hardly potent or 'reactive'. Pure water is neither deadly nor magical. You can drink them, or dip your clam in them just the same as you can use tap water (minus the toxin in tap water of course)
Minh

 

[Travis]

Minh, what is your take on FW dipping a clam upon recieving it(mail order) before putting it in the tank? Is it too stressfull for the clam? Obviously, quarantine is the recommended route but not everyone has the space or money to set up a quarantine tank. I know clams are very hardy(my clams and some fish were all that survived my tank crash) but FW dipping upon arrival might be too much.

 

[OrionN]

Minh, what is your take on FW dipping a clam upon recieving it(mail order) before putting it in the tank? Is it too stressfull for the clam? Obviously, quarantine is the recommended route but not everyone has the space or money to set up a quarantine tank. I know clams are very hardy(my clams and some fish were all that survived my tank crash) but FW dipping upon arrival might be too much.

I agree that this is too much, especially if the new clam is a prize clam and is very beautiful. Who would order not so beautiful clams right? I don't dip them on arrival, and keep them in my refugium (under 400W MH) away from my other clams and will dip as soon as I think there is a problem.