Gen X or Iwaki?

[Anemone0524]

hi all -


I know in a perfect world we'd all run Iwaki's, since from what i've seen, it appears to be the gold standard for external pumps.

I'm running a sump in the basement, approximately 16-18 feet below where it is being pumped to. Suddenly I find myself in the business of buying expensive external pumps.

Using the Reef Central Head-Loss calculator, I've narrowed my options down to getting either of the following (i'm sure there's more options out there, but these are the ones i'm looking at) :

GenX PCX 40 (Mak 4) - Can find on ebay for $165 no shipping.
Iwaki MD55 - $349 on Marine Depot.

Both put me slightly under the 600 GPH my Allglass Overflow can handle.


1) Are the GenX pumps just pieces of trash? Is that why they are half the price of Iwaki's? Who has experience with these pumps?

2) Is it better to get a pump that will calculate GPH well above the 600 my overflow can handle, but then build in a ball valve to the return? Or is it best to just get the pump that delivers the exact GPH you need?

3) I know that if its a straight return, I don't need a pump that is "pressure rated". If I install a ball valve on the line, would this then merit the purchase of a "pressure rated" pump?

Ok any help would be GREATLY appreciated. When I got into this hobby, I had no idea the pumps would cost this much. I'd be willing to pick up the Iwaki if it's worth it....
:eek2:

 

[kzickovich]

I run a genx40 on my skimmer never had a problem with it. but I would look into a reeflo pump for a return pump. They have a three year no question asked return policy and the power used adjustes itself by using a ball valve on the return line.

 

[gws76]

I run a genx pcx 40 as my return, but my head loss is minimal. It's like 4 ft., deffinetly not 16-18 ft.

I also run a reeflo dart on my closed loop, outstanding pump. Not sure the dart would be what you need since it's a biased pump. They do have other models that would work for you. Possibly a pressure rated would be what you need. I would go with the reeflo.

 

[Whys]

I really like Poseidon and use a 4. Powerful and quiet, but does add some heat.

 

[Fizz71]

Re: Gen X or Iwaki?

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14843664#post14843664 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Anemone0524

3) I know that if its a straight return, I don't need a pump that is "pressure rated". If I install a ball valve on the line, would this then merit the purchase of a "pressure rated" pump?

Who told you that? Pressure is pressure whether it's from bends, or gravity. 18 vertical feet is some serious pressure.

Keep in mind most of the time the difference between "pressure rated" or "pressure biased" pumps and regular pumps are the props. I think at 18ft you need something pressure rated.

One of the biggest problem with big external pumps are electric costs. My Tarpon pumps up about 6 feet, smooth bends and pumps over another 10ft then up another 6 feet to a sharp turn into the tank. My pump maxes at 1440gph..I actually get about 600gph and my wattage draw is in the 180s. To give you a comparison I have a Koralia Magnum 5 powerhead drawing about 9 watts pushing 1650gph. My tarpon costs me about $150 a year to run, the Koralia about 8$ a year.

What I'm trying to say is....pushing up 18ft is pretty high cost to get high flow, you'd be better off getting adequate flow and then put something in your tank for better flow. The Tarpon I mentioned would get you about what it gets me...600gph if you really think you need that much.

Don't go so much on the Head Loss Calculator on RC, there are good pumps out there not on that list...if you know you're doing a straight 18ft up, then you know your headloss, now check out the flow charts of different quality pumps yourself, and also look at the wattage draws and heat transfer.

Here are ReefFlos:
http://www.reeflopumps.com/images/flow_charts.xls

..The tarpon touts itself as "LOW SPEED....PRESSURE BIASED" and "Low Watt Draw (180-300 watts), Low heat transfer" ..that's why I went with it. Found a brand new one here on RC cheap! ..from another user. Sure I could have gotten a manta ray and got over 4000gph, but also at about $600 a year to more run! (and I think electric here is pretty cheap)

 

[Anemone0524]

Thank you Fizz for showing me the Tarpon. The ReeFlo pumps look so impressive...

It does appear to be perfect for my situation. At 16 feet, the flow is 786 GPH. Given i'll have soft bends, and some horizontal flow, this would probably end up around 600 anyways at 18 feet.

Fizz -Do you know if the warrantee is still valid in your case? you bought it from another RC member, do you think Reeflo would honor their warrantee with you?

I assume it hooks up to a 3/4 male threaded pipe?

 

[Henry Bowman]

Reeflow is a great pump. I'd go with it before either of the others. Keep in mind this is the "heart" of your system.

 

[Fizz71]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14844965#post14844965 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Anemone0524
Thank you Fizz for showing me the Tarpon. The ReeFlo pumps look so impressive...

It does appear to be perfect for my situation. At 16 feet, the flow is 786 GPH. Given i'll have soft bends, and some horizontal flow, this would probably end up around 600 anyways at 18 feet.

Fizz -Do you know if the warrantee is still valid in your case? you bought it from another RC member, do you think Reeflo would honor their warrantee with you?

I assume it hooks up to a 3/4 male threaded pipe?

It should be warenteed. I asked the guy and he said ReefFlo told me they'd honor it and I took his word on it. I have a copy of his original receipt as well.

I will also add that in either his shipping to me or their shipping to him a thumbscrew broke off that keeps the seal on the pump redering it useless. They sent him a new one and he sent it to me..didn't cost me a thing.

The pump is now working fantasically for me, and it's been running for about 2 months. It's a bit noisy, but it's in my basement so you can only hear it when you're standing in the spot above it..which is were my fridge is so nobody ever notices.

And yes..I'm running 3/4" all the way up to the tank. I have it moving between PVC and Flex PVC. Pvc for Ball valves, disconnects, and the long straight runs, and flex PVC for all the bends except for the last 90 to point it into the tank...didn't have a choice there, too small a box to get flex to work.

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v.../2009_03_27/?action=view&current=IMG_4951.jpg

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v...ef/DursoMod/?action=view&current=IMG_4953.jpg

 

[Anemone0524]

Admirable sump setup down in your basement Fizz.

Are you doing water changes using that giant ball valve plumbed into the tub? How's that working out for you?

Don't you have problems keeping a constant water level in there for your skimmer? I thought skimmers needed that.

Your setup is going to look a lot like my setup, for sure.

 

[Fizz71]

If you look just to the left of the skimmer you'll see a small float valve. It's connected to a long 1/4"ID tube that runs to a 55g R/O storage barrel to the left of where the photo is taken (you can't see it in the shot). It's gravity fed so it drips slowly into the tub maintaining the exact same sump level all day long. Since the barrel is even to the tank height even if the float gets stuck open only a few gallons would get into the system.

Right now the barrel is on auto fill from the RO until I get a new timer so it is a risk right now, but once the timer is on it should be a nice safe murphy-proof gravity-fed auto-topoff. All I have to do is look in on it everyday and make sure the levels have not changed from a problem.

I am still working on the water change setup but yes...that valve is designed for it. That long pipe sticking up will be eventually be cut to the sump water height I settle on. There is flex PVC on the ground below the pump that feeds into the tarpon and I will hook that up to a pump that feeds from a 55g mix tub right next to the RO tub. Changing 50 gallons of water should be a matter of opening a few valves, flipping a few switches, waiting 5 minutes and doing the reverse process.

That's the plan anyway. I already have a koralia 5 for my mix barrel and velocity pump I'll use to pump it into the tarpon. And a dolphin pump sitting in the ro tub to quickly move the ro into the salt mix barrel to start the process over. I have a lot of left over equipment from my 105g so I'm reusing where I can, but keeping 24/7 running components to lower wattage pumps. 1 Koralia 5 in the sump, 2 koralia 8s in the tank running 1 at a time. The biggest pig is the tarpon.