genes X environment
- Thread starter aomont
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David M
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Is that the $500 pair? If so they have been on there for a while now, my partner is considering offering $250 just to see what they say. The thing is it's just "two fish", not a pair as we consider a pair to be.
I certainly don't know but I say it has to be genetics. I have been pulling oc's with extra markings for a while now, will grow them out and eventually form pairs to see what comes of it.
I certainly don't know but I say it has to be genetics. I have been pulling oc's with extra markings for a while now, will grow them out and eventually form pairs to see what comes of it.
The Snowflakes are A. Ocellaris, so snatch them up David. They are way overpriced though IMO. They are from a normal barred pair from TMC and only a few are developed with this morph each hatch. My husband lost his pair from a power outage while on vacation but his Snowflake/Percula pair survived and are still breeding. so far he has found that more than half of the larvae have some Snowflake markings for the second band and 95% of the larvae have an extra wide headband that extends over the eyes and gill plates, then continues to the dorsal. I think that would suggest genetics have alot to do with the color morph, at least for hybrids. If I can find his pics of his fry/larvae developments I will post them. He won't do it because he is boycotting RC.
David M
New member
If they are indeed ocellaris I'll make an offer but I agree $500 is rediculous. I have a pair now but nothing like those pictured, in fact the female looks normal but is supposed to be from the same stock. The male has the "snowflake" coloration but not nearly as striking as these. I've always believed they are percula, are there snowflake varieties of both species or are mine actually oc's?
BTW I looked at liveaquaria and can't find them, are they under some special heading?
BTW I looked at liveaquaria and can't find them, are they under some special heading?
i'll make this short-so you guys can have a better discussion.
in the wild-both...I say this since selection pressure in the wild is huge, whereas in our fish tanks, they do NOT exisit. So in our tanks-genes are the major factor.
why do i say this, inregards to your snowflake clowns. I guarentee this color trait does NOT breed true, meaning a very small percent of the fry will look like the adults.
Case in point, look at the picasso or naked clowns from ORA. Naked is a 1:1000, picasso is 1:100-500. most of the clown fry from the naked+/+ adults are regular looking, ditto w/ picasso have regular barring.
however in the wild if piscasso striping provided a environmental selection advantages (such as increased mate selection or increased predator protection) then I guarentee you'd see more picasso -striped clowns. in our fish tanks and in ORAs growout tanks the misbarring does nothing
in the wild-both...I say this since selection pressure in the wild is huge, whereas in our fish tanks, they do NOT exisit. So in our tanks-genes are the major factor.
why do i say this, inregards to your snowflake clowns. I guarentee this color trait does NOT breed true, meaning a very small percent of the fry will look like the adults.
Case in point, look at the picasso or naked clowns from ORA. Naked is a 1:1000, picasso is 1:100-500. most of the clown fry from the naked+/+ adults are regular looking, ditto w/ picasso have regular barring.
however in the wild if piscasso striping provided a environmental selection advantages (such as increased mate selection or increased predator protection) then I guarentee you'd see more picasso -striped clowns. in our fish tanks and in ORAs growout tanks the misbarring does nothing
They´re still there David !
http://www.liveaquaria.com/diversden/ItemDisplay.cfm?ddid=11050&siteid=20
Anderson.
http://www.liveaquaria.com/diversden/ItemDisplay.cfm?ddid=11050&siteid=20
Anderson.
David M
New member
Yeah I saw that, they were sold & now they're back. Makes me wonder if the pic is the actual fish they are selling. For $500 it had damned well better be 
I agree with posts above, it's not like you get 100% identicle offspring. The price is just too high, I paid about $100 for the pair I have now. Actually traded for 15 ocellaris which I could have sold for for $105. The store sold them for $300 so we both won out 
I agree with posts above, it's not like you get 100% identicle offspring. The price is just too high, I paid about $100 for the pair I have now. Actually traded for 15 ocellaris which I could have sold for for $105. The store sold them for $300 so we both won out Frank yes and no again.
I agree that its most likely genetics. In the wild these are better targets for predators. Not in our tanks.
But as to breeding true- it 'appears' to be a simple piebald factor, if so its recessive, but the F1 offspring of a piebald bred to a normal fish will all look normal but all carry the piebald. Just as the 'Koi' pattern in helleri swords is a piebald. Its the closest pattern in fish I can think of that resembles this.
If anyone can get a pair of these they should reproduce themselves if it is the piebald factor. Otherwise their offspring bred to one another should throw some in the F2.
Time will tell. The piebald factor is the only one I can think of that resembles this.
David, do the Cooperbergs still have their shop in N San Diego ?? They had the nicest marines I knew of there in the 80s.
I agree that its most likely genetics. In the wild these are better targets for predators. Not in our tanks.
But as to breeding true- it 'appears' to be a simple piebald factor, if so its recessive, but the F1 offspring of a piebald bred to a normal fish will all look normal but all carry the piebald. Just as the 'Koi' pattern in helleri swords is a piebald. Its the closest pattern in fish I can think of that resembles this.
If anyone can get a pair of these they should reproduce themselves if it is the piebald factor. Otherwise their offspring bred to one another should throw some in the F2.
Time will tell. The piebald factor is the only one I can think of that resembles this.
David, do the Cooperbergs still have their shop in N San Diego ?? They had the nicest marines I knew of there in the 80s.
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