loosecannon
New member
thank`s Billsreef for the info . I still think we can lern from them with out killing them . p. s. don`t YOU!
Georgia Aquarium Loses Second Whale Shark
- Thread starter TypicalNoah
- Start date
Steven Pro
New member
Aquarium Fish International has reported the drug as Trichlorfon.
hankthetank
In Memoriam
The amazing part is that anyone who has ever used Trichlorfon(Clout)should have read the label where it says not to use it on scaleless fishes.And marine biologists didn't know this?That is the real crime here.
Pea-brain
In Memoriam
I think there is nothing wrong with keeping whale sharks. Yes, they are in trouble but how will we ever know how to care for them in the first place if we don't try? Since they bought them from fishermen who were going to kill them I see no reason this could possibly be wrong ethically (Ugh, I hate to use that word) except that some taiwanese people aren't goig to be having whale shark soup.
Dan
Dan
jmaneyapanda
Commencing hatred
Maybe something like this can help some people put this venture in perspective.
http://shanghaiist.com/2007/08/11/amazingly_huge.php
http://shanghaiist.com/2007/08/11/amazingly_huge.php
TypicalNoah
New member
Sharks have scales. Not the same as we're used to in the teleosts (bony fish), but they have scales. A shark's skin is composed of thousands of tiny "denticles," the toothy-shaped sandpaper feeling little... well, scales.
Also, Trichlorfon IS used to treat other sharks. Other aquariums, including Georgia, still use Trichlorfon to treat their other shark exhibits. It does its job well. But just because animals are in the same taxonomic class (Chondrichthyes) does not mean that they are physiologically identical. Whale sharks are the only members of their genus and family even - a quick glance will tell you they are very different from most other sharks. Is it a shame that two passed away? Yes. Was it the best educated guess we had to keeping them from suffering from a parasitic onslaught? Yes. Guess we'll have to research what makes whale sharks more sensitive.
hankthetank
In Memoriam
You never heard of quinine sulfate at the Georgia Aquarium?Or praziquantel and levamisol?They are much more expensive but isn't it worth it in the case of a Whale Shark?Organophosphates are much more indiscriminate than these other compounds.It seems to me that one should try to err on the side of caution when entering unknown territory.Mind you that I have no problem
with your keeping a Whale Shark,but the thought process that went into determining the proper course of treatment if it is as you say was definitely suspect.I wish you better luck next time.
By the way what did the necropsy determine the actual cause of death to be?
with your keeping a Whale Shark,but the thought process that went into determining the proper course of treatment if it is as you say was definitely suspect.I wish you better luck next time.
By the way what did the necropsy determine the actual cause of death to be?
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TypicalNoah
New member
Well hank, you bested me. Then again, I'm only still a student. Maybe you should try calling up the Georgia Aquarium and asking them, eh? While I may no longer be able to tell you why they didn't do what you suggested, I'm sure there's a reason. Remember that those decisions comprise somebody's career. It would be downright silly to assume they didn't consider their other options, but hey, if they missed it, try voicing your opinion where it matters. Chances are though, they'll just ignore you because they already know. Sigh.
About the necropsy, I'm not sure - too busy now, but I think the results are public if you try a google search. Public in the sense that you'll probably get no technical information annnnd probably not a satisfying answer. I've got no big news about it, at least.
About the necropsy, I'm not sure - too busy now, but I think the results are public if you try a google search. Public in the sense that you'll probably get no technical information annnnd probably not a satisfying answer. I've got no big news about it, at least.
TypicalNoah
New member
And as far as what could be considered "worth it," I can't even begin to think about the entire economics of running a nonprofit aquarium. If Trichlorfon worked for other sharks, and it's a lot cheaper, logic alone would mandate its use. Too bad it didn't work, but if the others are more expensive... It would have had to treat 6.33 million gallons. What if your others were, say, 20% more expensive? Do you know what a 20% price increase might look like over that many gallons? Say the aquarium had, theoretically, a 100,000 dollar budget for that sort of thing, per year. Then say MAX donations add an extra 10,000. It wouldn't be able to cover the increase to 120,000 - and it's not like they have many options after full donations besides more loans. Just saying. It's economics. They wouldn't even consider other treatments if the cheaper one worked for other sharks and it was some significant percent less than other treatments. I bet they even spoke of it too - "hey I wonder how the whale sharks will respond?" "probably not the same as ____ sharks, or ____ sharks, and we may have to vary the treatment - but I don't think it will be too different, gauging by general physiology..." "oh %^&*, guess they're more sensitive. I wish there had been a way to find out before." "yeah, damn." Could be one scenario.
Im suprised how angry people are about this. This is an institution trying to expand our knowledge about an animal that is at risk of becoming extinct that we know very little about. This isnt some wealthy jerk who had a big saltwater swimming pool and decided he wanted a pet whale shark! These animals are to be studied to help teach us how to ensure their survival, and if you asked me thats a fine cause to die for, unfortunate as it may in fact be. Where is your outrage for the "Man eating catfish" pictures? That animal was publically chopped up for a reason no better than "just because". Your complaints and anger would be much better directed at countries that are still hunting this animal and drying its parts out to make soup that will give you good fortune or a raging erection.
TypicalNoah
New member
Haha exactly. Speaking of which, you know they only use the dorsal spine bones of the fin to make the soup - not even the meat.
hankthetank
In Memoriam
Maybe some rich jerk SHOULD try to keep one in a large pool.Since it is a matter of economics...........
Im sorry, how many zoos or public aquariums do you own? Work for? Are you a major benefactor for? How much scientific research have you done on whale sharks? Tagged, tracked and studied? Im sorry to ask but all it said was old salt, so I wasnt sure which career choice in marine biology you made. Knowing the different applicable medications is one thing, understanding the financial situation of a public aquarium is another can of worms. I dont know if you think Bill Gates owns the place and used it to make his billions, but zoos and aquariums are underfunded relying heavily on donations and Im sure governmental grants for doing tha research they do. I cant claim to know what their budgeting is, but I do know that its not cheap for me to have a 90 gallon system, so Id imagine that several million gallons is pretty expensive. Imagine the astronomical utility costs, staff costs, food for the animals, medicine for the animals, the cost of materials and labor to build the habitats, etc. Ask any marine biologist and theyll tell you they do it for the love of the job, not the money. I dont know what your experience is but Im willing to bet they have experts working on this who have alot more. I also dont know if you donated a large sum of money to that aquarium, or any money at all, but if not I would say that you have no basis to suggest how it is spent. Show some respect to people with more knowledge and initiative to try and do something about an endangered animal than you seem to have.
Folks, there is not much point in debating what meds they should have or should not have used without having more knowledge about exactly what parasite they were treating for. Conjecture does no one any good. However, I can tell you the aquarists and vetinary staff at the Georgia Aquarium are among some of the finest to be found. I've had the pleasure of meeting and talking to both the curator and head of the aquariums vetinary services and I'm confident that they did all that could be done with the best methods they could find, not the cheapest.
TypicalNoah
New member
Yeah, I just don't get why that's not good enough for some people.
This is a really interesting thread. Whale sharks are such amazing creatures, I can only dream of what it must be like to dive with one!!!
Somehow, though, the most interesting thing about this thread is the evident level of intelligence between the supporters of the Georgia aquairum and the antagonists.
Hank and jgb, you guys come off as yahoos without a decent grasp of english grammer, let alone the level of intelligence necessary to critique one of the most well funded and highly educated aquariums in the world. People reading this thread would take you much more seriously if you proof-read before you submit.
Somehow, though, the most interesting thing about this thread is the evident level of intelligence between the supporters of the Georgia aquairum and the antagonists.
Hank and jgb, you guys come off as yahoos without a decent grasp of english grammer, let alone the level of intelligence necessary to critique one of the most well funded and highly educated aquariums in the world. People reading this thread would take you much more seriously if you proof-read before you submit.
