gettanked salt mixes

[Boomer]

Ok Joe

But I agree with stanlalee also. You do not have to have a salt that mixes to your tank parameters, as most do not. You adjust the salt mix to your tanks parameters during mixing. Main reason most use salt mixes that are lower than their tank parmeters. If a salt does mix to or near ones parameters then fine.

You're saying that oceanic sea salt that mixes out to crazy numbers is no worse than tropic marin pro reef salt? I don't think any experienced hobbyist has the need for a salt that mixes out to numbers like oceanic...

But some like Ocenaic salt and there are some very nice reef tanks with Oceanic salt to include a tank of the month. I do not believe in Oceanic or many salts as many of them have boosted levels not needed. Corals do not grow any better at 500 ppm C++, which many are led to believe, than they do at 380 ppm. It is a Alk pH thing for growth.

But this thread revolves around another so called "miracle salt" that it will make you a better tank. We get these year after year after year.

 

[Joel A]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15551074#post15551074 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Boomer
Ok Joe

But I agree with stanlalee also. You do not have to have a salt that mixes to your tank parameters, as most do not. You adjust the salt mix to your tanks parameters during mixing. Main reason most use salt mixes that are lower than their tank parmeters. If a salt does mix to or near ones parameters then fine.

yeah, i agree.. and if you look in my response to stanlalee, i said that about the salt mixes that mix out to parameters lower than whatever that particular reefer keeps his tank at...

much better to have a salt mix that mixes out lower than tank parameters (so you can bump them up) then to have a salt that mixes out too high (because then what?) =).

My personal thoughts on the matter though, are if you can find a consistent salt (if there are any) that mixes out very close to your current tank parameters, then you don't have to worry about it at all! Just mix, and add

 

[Boomer]

Joe I edit my post a bit above. I see we are at least on the same page

 

[eggiel]

Reminds you of some Boomer jajajajaajj
Iam laughing cause I almost got kicked out for this arguement but its all good know these discussions makes this forum better

Joel A

My personal thoughts on the matter though, are if you can find a consistent salt (if there are any) that mixes out very close to your current tank parameters, then you don't have to worry about it at all! Just mix, and add [/B]

Just like my thoughts and been happy with it and my corals looks happy so dont think your wrong looking for a salt that suits your parameters better just mix and dump

 

[iFisch]

Thanks for responding fellas'.

 

[stanlalee]

maybe I've been a little misunderstood. All I'm really saying is I get tired of seeing all this excitement everytime a new salt comes out. Its not the salt keeping an SPS aquarium stable, its dosing.

Lets say you start with a perfect mix (sea water). In 48 hrs in a highly stocked SPS without dosing you have insufficient depleted water. the starting point is just that. Yes its important to maintain parameters close to sea water. I agree with that. This new salt isn't going to be any better then whats out there. Reef salts with elevated levels probably work a little better due to the rapid uptake of highly stocked tanks but really, when your dosing 50ml of 160mg/ml a day just to keep calcium stable at around sea level what difference is a 20% water change once every week with 420ppm ca salt going to make as opposed to one with 360ppm or 450ppm? It still adds up to your dosing or reactor keeping parameters stable not the magic salt mix.

 

[Billybeau1]

I think you are all finally getting it.

IMO, the most important thing in a successful reef is the husbandry of the owner itself.

I think we can all agree on that.

 

[eggiel]

I dont think anybody is saying its a magic salt is just a nice stable,consistent from batch to batch, nice parameter salt

That makes life easy why bother waiting for parameters to get down to what you like or adding more of the 3 when you could get ready for mix
I agree you could get some of these parameters in an other brand but everybody likes to try something new
This is a hobby and like every other hobbies there going to be better brands coming around with new improvements

 

[moonyguy]

I have been using their Formula 2 for NSW levels for the last 9 months with a zeovit system and so far I have had no problems. Gary is a nice guy to talk and deal with if you have any issues. My tank looks nicer than before and I have had nice growth.

 

[Joel A]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15552148#post15552148 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by stanlalee
maybe I've been a little misunderstood. All I'm really saying is I get tired of seeing all this excitement everytime a new salt comes out. Its not the salt keeping an SPS aquarium stable, its dosing.

Lets say you start with a perfect mix (sea water). In 48 hrs in a highly stocked SPS without dosing you have insufficient depleted water. the starting point is just that. Yes its important to maintain parameters close to sea water. I agree with that. This new salt isn't going to be any better then whats out there. Reef salts with elevated levels probably work a little better due to the rapid uptake of highly stocked tanks but really, when your dosing 50ml of 160mg/ml a day just to keep calcium stable at around sea level what difference is a 20% water change once every week with 420ppm ca salt going to make as opposed to one with 360ppm or 450ppm? It still adds up to your dosing or reactor keeping parameters stable not the magic salt mix.

while you're not wrong... and most of what you're saying is correct... here's where your response is off (at least to me).

You're saying that the salt doesn't matter because the equipment (calcium reactor, kalk reactor, dosing pump, etc.) keeps the levels high and constant in the tank... this is true... but there's a catch to it...

A properly dialed in piece of calcium/alkalinity dosing equipment (like the aforementioned) is supposed to add just as much calcium and alkalinity (calcium carbonate) back to the tank as your corals take up each day... that is after all how they keep levels so consistent... because their output is dialed in to the exact amount (or as close as possible to the exact amount) of calcium carbonate that each individuals tank consumes each day...

so here's where the issue is... if all the calcium reactor (or whatever piece of equipment you use) is adding back the amount of calcium carbonate that the corals take out, it won't raise your levels in the tank.. they should remain consistent...

so if you take out say 25gallons of water out of a 100 gallon tank (25%) and that water has a calcium of 420 and an alk of 8 (or wherever the reefer try's to keep their levels) and then adds back in (in place of the water that was taken out) water with drastically different parameters say like CA- 340 Alk-12 (about what instant ocean is) then that is in turn going to drop the level of calcium in the tank, and raise the level of alkalinity in the tank... (remembering the calcium/alkalinity dosing equipment is not going to raise those numbers for you)

so if a reefer is unaware that they are inadvertently doing this, and they continue to make weekly, or bi weekly water changes... all of the sudden in a month or two's time, they've got a real issue on their hands, and all because of the "starting points" of the salt that they were using for water changes. Not only is their calcium now low, and their alk now high, but the two are out of balance.. and it's not always easy trying to get those two parameters back in check.

Now there is a simple fix to this.. and that's to simply test the water you mix up before adding it to your tank so you know what you are adding... if it's low in calcium/alkalinity/magnesium it can be adjusted... if it's high in calcium/alkalinity/magnesium it can be adjusted as well.... but not as easily.

Here's where salt choice becomes important... if you choose the proper salt for your tank to begin with, and it mixes out to the numbers your tank needs, then you don't have any of these issues... and this is why i was looking into the Gettanked Salt mixes.


Sorry if i didn't write a very clear explanation... it makes sense in my head, but i'm not always good at explaining it to other people.. and please... someone correct the above if you think any of it is wrong...

But in conclusion... a salt mix doesn't make or break a tank... but it is still an important part of this very complex hobby we call reefing

 

[Joel A]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15552855#post15552855 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by moonyguy
I have been using their Formula 2 for NSW levels for the last 9 months with a zeovit system and so far I have had no problems. Gary is a nice guy to talk and deal with if you have any issues. My tank looks nicer than before and I have had nice growth.

got any pictures? I'm anxious to see zeovit tanks now that i've decided to make the conversion.. .

 

[janes_mw]

Ph up

Ph up

Thanks Boomer for the great advice. I have only used a couple times, but now I understand. Thxs! - mike


janes

I also use his Ph UP

You are NOT suppose to be using buffers to raise pH unless the pH and alk are low and then sodium carbonate. pH is controlled mostly in reef tanks and the ocean by CO2 and NOT the Alk. It makes no difference if the Alk is 1.5 meq/ l or 5 meq / l. If there is an increase in CO2 the pH will drop about the same. So, if your pH is dropping it is not the Alk but the CO2. [/B][/QUOTE]

 

[janes_mw]

my last .02. I am basically looking for a stable mix as I continually chase" keeping the system stable". As we all know, if it's not one thing, it's another in this "sport". I have used Red Sea, TMP, IO, RC and GetTanked and the most consistent from batch to batch has been TMP and GetTanked. That is all I am saying, not that one is better than the other, but the consistency seems to closer than the others. There is no magic in this hobby and each system is it's own. Unlike the ocean where mother nature knows what she is doing (man mucks it up) we are all learning and that is what is great about these blogs..... we all are still learning.

So, not because of the individual parameters but because of consistency, I have settled on TMP and GetTanked.

mike

 

[stanlalee]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15552873#post15552873 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Joel A


so if you take out say 25gallons of water out of a 100 gallon tank (25%) and that water has a calcium of 420 and an alk of 8 (or wherever the reefer try's to keep their levels) and then adds back in (in place of the water that was taken out) water with drastically different parameters say like CA- 340 Alk-12 (about what instant ocean is) then that is in turn going to drop the level of calcium in the tank, and raise the level of alkalinity in the tank... (remembering the calcium/alkalinity dosing equipment is not going to raise those numbers for you)

again I disagree. your way overstating what happens. when 75% of the water is unchanged and the water your replacing the 25% with has 80% of the calcium the water you just removed has you are hardly dropping calcium at all with one change. you are only losing 20% calcium of 25% of water. this is nothing compared to what the corals are doing to your parameters. Likewise carbonates are used up even faster than calcium so a high alk salt used for 25% water changes weekly or bi weekly isn't changing squat significantly compared to what your corals are doing. If these small periodic water changes with non matched salts are making things difficult for anyone to keep things stable they dont have a chance keeping a thriving had coral aquarium because the livestock is 10 fold corrupting your parameters of what a 25% water change with low/high ca and alk is doing.

My IO test at ca 380ppm and dKH 10 BTW, compared to ca 580ppm and dKH 6 with seachem reef. I've transitioned between these regular seachem and redsea with no difficulty maintaining parameters at all. the changes required from using different parameter salts from the 15% changes is so gradual new coral stocking and growth are much more likely to throw things off.

your principles ARE valid but overstated in all but lightly stocked low calcification reefs that remain stable on their own from day to day. with those tanks (or early on when first setting up) making changes with mixed water as close to tank water does keeps it stable. the existance of "reef" salt itself with purposely off (sea water) parameters are based on the assumption the aquariums depletion rate is far more significant than the salt. seachem reef with 580ppm calcium never elevated my calcium past 440ppm. all that using a salt close to my tank calcium parameters is going to change is gradually the amount of calcium chloride I dump in it. either way I'll be dumping in ca chloride and either way if the new salt is a 6dKH or 12dKH I'll still be dumping in carbonates daily. either way if I use salt a or b my parameters will be all to wack without DAILY self manipulation and no easier or harder to maintain stable.

 

[moo0o]

I know for me I would like there to be no change in parameters when I do water changes keeping my system's parameters absolutely stable.
Now, this makes no sense if you are only doing small water changes infrequently, but it would make a huge difference if you like to do large water changes frequently. By frequent and large water changes I mean 25% a week and by infrequent and small I mean 25% in a month or two.
Scenario:
Ok, I like to keep my tank at CA 400 and ALK 142ppm[8dKh] because for whatever reason I feel that my Calcium/alk at 400/142 gives me better growth than my Calcium/alk at any other level. My calcium reactor keeps them at exactly these levels for 1-2 months.
If I do a 25% water change with instant ocean with parameters of CA 380 and ALK 160ppm.
400ppm * .75 = 300ppm
380ppm * .25 = 95ppm.
My calcium is now at 395ppm and 387.5ppm on a second water change.
142ppm *.75 = 106.5
160ppm *.25 = 40ppm
My ALK will be at 146.6ppm and 149.95ppm on the second water change. By the 2nd week my ALK will be at 8.4dKh and my calcium will be at 387.5ppm. I realize that as I do more and more changes, my parameters will change less and less but I would prefer that my parameters don't change at all which is why I use only a certain brand of salt.
With weekly 25% water changes, my tank will slowly drift towards the parameters of the salt with my calcium reactor keeping up with daily demand. This may not be a big deal to you, but it to me and this might be what Joel is trying to point out. I don't want to have to dose CA every water change to match the water change water to my tank's water, it's a hassle.

I am aware there are a lot of other things in the hobby that is also considered a hassle to some but I just like knowing that all i have to do for water changes is make sure its the right salinity and change that water. That peace of mind comes with a salt that is consistent from batch to batch.

Forgot to include: Lets not forget about the times when things just go wrong and you have to do a large 50-100% water change. Id like to know that my water parameters will be exactly what it used to be before the disaster even happened.

 

[tegee]

I have used GTA salt for about 1-year now and been very happy. I run an sps dominate tank and yes the big three have been very stable for me during this time. I run a kalk and calcium reactor to help maintain levels as well. His supplements have worked very nice for me and the kalk has been a fan favorite of mine. Mixes very well and very consistent.

My only disclaimer, and the reason why I may stop using his salt, is because his price has literally doubled since I started using it. I can not, and will not, blame him. He is in business to make a living and I can not fault him for that. I personally may not be able to afford and/or justify its use with my tank in the future. I will state it again, I think Gary is a wonderful and intelligent person and he has helped me immensely over the past year. But I just can not seem to spend $75.00+ on his 150 gl batches + freight. Just a tad out of my price range at this point. Which really sucks because I love using his salt and his expertise. I will still use all his supplements in the future.

Hope this helped and GREAT topic......

 

[janes_mw]

tegee - same here, 75 + 31 shipping makes it too expensive. I can get 200 gal mix of TMP for 69 + 15 for shipping - mike

I have the exact same issue!

 

[tegee]

janes_mw, I may go back to SeaChem Reef Salt. Had excellent experience with it before switching to GTA.

 

[janes_mw]

haven't tried SC, but I will probably go back to TMPdue to availability, cost, and consistency.

mike

 

[luther1200]

Read this article, it reallt shows how trivial some of the parameters people go nuts about in different salt mixes really are. As they get assimilated very quickly. And we add far more Alk with kalk for example than a water change ever would.


Basically it states that you would have to change 10%-30% of tank volume PER DAY on a low demand sytem to maintane your Alk levels with just WC. And up to 50% PER DAY on a high demand system. So a salt with the "perfect" Alk means very little after a few hours when your coral start to use it. You will still need to supliment.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-10/rhf/index.php