Gigantea:Cloned

[D-Nak]

Gigantea in captivity is rare enough few enough people with more than one Gigantea out there. A reefer with two healthy Gigatnea of opposite sex isn't out there.

I think that person is out there. I sent her an email asking if she had some time to chime in to our conversation. See post #42 and on...

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1970818&highlight=gigantea&page=2

It's funny because I was just reading up on this.

 

[OrionN]

It would be great if she chime in.

 

[shutiny]

I think that person is out there. I sent her an email asking if she had some time to chime in to our conversation. See post #42 and on...

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1970818&highlight=gigantea&page=2

It's funny because I was just reading up on this.

Thanks Derrick for reminding me that I still have an RC account
Its been a while, good to see some "ole faces" are still here. I don't have much to add, been away too long and aging didn't help either. :headwallblue:

The anemones pictured above were not healthy, not sure how they will do in long term. But there is no question in my mind that these were manually divided. Their posture is very typical of a divided gigantea(by man). As far as the cutting of S. gigantea(and other sea anemones) goes, it has been done in seaside locations, in natural flow through sea water set ups but success and results are are hard to come by. I visited a large farm in Bali several years ago, and they seemed to be doing pretty good with their divisions at the time/on site. But, I think their long term survival rate was rather poor. Gigantea and other large sea anemones that are not naturally reproduce via asexual divisions have very slow healing rate. Some translated this into their slow reproduction rate as well. The future may be in isolating healing genes from E. qua and plant them in gigantea's RNA???


I had two (may be 3) manually divided halves, and none survived past 3 years if I remember correctly. They were in a mix tank and I wished that I had kept them in an isolated tank and they might have survived longer. I learned over the years that large anemones will try to kill or affect other anemones of the same or not. A stressed gigantea is rather deadly to its tank mates and a freshly divided (as pictured) is a stressed anemone in my view...together, they will affect each other's survival/healing.

If you must, may be use a large tank(250g or more)/ large volume and run activate cabon may help.

I haven't add any thing to my tanks for may 3-4 years now, and not thing has changed in my gigantea tank. Here are pictures from two year ago:

Cheers U all,

 

[Catchoftheday]

Not to hijack your thread but i just got a.new gig as well and notice the same thing looks as if it was cut

 

[nemoboy1]

Very interesting shutiny... When you mention that you visited Bali ding ding made me think it has to be the same as the seller said these are from Bali. I'm a little discourage that split/propagated gigs has a smaller chance at survival so now I'm even more ????
Now can you chime in on the gigs that come through and are sold to local fish stores are those gigs also propagated or slice. I have a few that I bought through LFS and are doing well. Thanks for your input and let's hope these make it... I was going to post another pix but with shutiny answers I don't think I have to. Thanks again

Btw love your tank and those gigs... They look to be extremely happy and healthy.

 

[stickleback]

Can you see how many siphonoglyphs the suspect gigs have?
I would imagine if somebody was going to cut a carpet in half, they would make sure each half would have one.

 

[Reefvette]

Shu tin! This lady has taught me alot!


Shes a treasure trove of knowledge

 

[God.]

DUDE!

just stumbled upon this thread. I too recieved a nice blue gig with a rather nasty oral disc laceration. I just assumed they tore the foot upon retrieval.

However the temp probe fell out of our qt and cooked the blue and I just recieved another gig I was gonna post a picture of. Had purrple verrecue (sp?) But had total "classic" haddoni lipstick.

When I checked the water temp it was at 137.6 °F. Anemone soup.

I gagged multiple times during water changes. The action of hitting the bottom of a five gallon bucket was enough aeration to foam up a nice anemone froth.

So please secure you temp probe lmao.

 

[phender]

My question is, with all this speculation as to whether the gigs have been cut or not, why don't you just ask the people you bought it from. If that is the way they got it then ask them to ask the people they bought it from. We need to track down who is cutting them and selling them as whole anemones.

 

[nemoboy1]

Thanks Derrick for reminding me that I still have an RC account
Its been a while, good to see some "ole faces" are still here. I don't have much to add, been away too long and aging didn't help either. :headwallblue:

The anemones pictured above were not healthy, not sure how they will do in long term. But there is no question in my mind that these were manually divided. Their posture is very typical of a divided gigantea(by man). As far as the cutting of S. gigantea(and other sea anemones) goes, it has been done in seaside locations, in natural flow through sea water set ups but success and results are are hard to come by. I visited a large farm in Bali several years ago, and they seemed to be doing pretty good with their divisions at the time/on site. But, I think their long term survival rate was rather poor. Gigantea and other large sea anemones that are not naturally reproduce via asexual divisions have very slow healing rate. Some translated this into their slow reproduction rate as well. The future may be in isolating healing genes from E. qua and plant them in gigantea's RNA???


I had two (may be 3) manually divided halves, and none survived past 3 years if I remember correctly. They were in a mix tank and I wished that I had kept them in an isolated tank and they might have survived longer. I learned over the years that large anemones will try to kill or affect other anemones of the same or not. A stressed gigantea is rather deadly to its tank mates and a freshly divided (as pictured) is a stressed anemone in my view...together, they will affect each other's survival/healing.

If you must, may be use a large tank(250g or more)/ large volume and run activate cabon may help.

I haven't add any thing to my tanks for may 3-4 years now, and not thing has changed in my gigantea tank. Here are pictures from two year ago:

Cheers U all,

answer is above plus the person or persons these came from really didn't give a straight answer but stated they are from Bali and all nems can split regardless species... They didn't say much so that gives you a clue

 

[phender]

stated they are from Bali and all nems can split regardless species...

Thank you very much friggin' Anthony Calfo.

Just because Shutiny saw a farm in Bali several years ago that was experimenting with this and your animals are from Bali doesn't mean that they came from the same supplier. There are lots of people shipping animals out of Bali.

So it gives you a clue that you were ripped off?

If I were you, I would be more than just a little upset. I am guessing that you paid normal prices for anemones that even if you do a great job with them, won't last more than a couple years at best.

Who did you buy these from? Shouldn't we be made aware of people selling anemone halves as normal healthy anemones?

If these guys get away with it, pretty soon you won't be able to find a "whole" gig.

 

[Catchoftheday]

Here is a pic of mine hope you can see

 

[D-Nak]

Thank you very much friggin' Anthony Calfo.

Just because Shutiny saw a farm in Bali several years ago that was experimenting with this and your animals are from Bali doesn't mean that they came from the same supplier. There are lots of people shipping animals out of Bali.

So it gives you a clue that you were ripped off?

If I were you, I would be more than just a little upset. I am guessing that you paid normal prices for anemones that even if you do a great job with them, won't last more than a couple years at best.

Who did you buy these from? Shouldn't we be made aware of people selling anemone halves as normal healthy anemones?

If these guys get away with it, pretty soon you won't be able to find a "whole" gig.

I think the wholesaler was the one who stated "they are from Bali and all nems can split regardless species". Those are not the OP's words. I think we all agree (at least I would like to think), especially in this forum, that not all anemone species can be split. I'm very curious to see what the other half of these gigs look like.

I am worried about this as well -- for the future of gigs in general. I was planning to begin looking for another gig for my tank, but I don't want one that's been cut, even partially. Now the challenge is finding a reputable wholesaler who can get a "whole" gig. The last wholesaler I found who had gigs offered to ship one to my LFS, but the retail cost was 3x the price I paid for my last gig, and I would be responsible for it as soon as it left the wholesaler.

I would expect both the wholesaler and LFS to inform the buyer of any injury. Sounds like we've come across a shady wholesaler. I hope this is just one bad apple, but I worry that there are more. Unfortunately, I've heard a few stories of collectors/exporters working directly with retailers (as in, a U.S.-based retailer has collectors overseas) so it may not just be a wholesaler issue.

The more we an learn where these gigs came from, the better for all of us.

 

[nemoboy1]

Thank you very much friggin' Anthony Calfo.

Just because Shutiny saw a farm in Bali several years ago that was experimenting with this and your animals are from Bali doesn't mean that they came from the same supplier. There are lots of people shipping animals out of Bali. i never said it came from the same farm shutiny witness..

So it gives you a clue that you were ripped off?
ofcourse one is flamed that this information wasn't indulged before purchase but what can I do now is not to order from again you live and learn
If I were you, I would be more than just a little upset. I am guessing that you paid normal prices for anemones that even if you do a great job with them, won't last more than a couple years at best. you are right about the longevity of these gigs as you and I and everyone else experiences so far these gigs have not live past 2 years in captivity and yes there are only a small percentage that does but its rare

Who did you buy these from? Shouldn't we be made aware of people selling anemone halves as normal healthy anemones?
believe me once I can pry it from my LFS I let y'all know
If these guys get away with it, pretty soon you won't be able to find a "whole" gig.

 

[SantaMonica]

I would expect both the wholesaler and LFS to inform the buyer of any injury

Probably the same types of people who don't inform about dyed corals, or cyanide'd fish.

 

[D-Nak]

Probably the same types of people who don't inform about dyed corals, or cyanide'd fish.

Agreed. Unfortunately, sometimes my expectations are not reality.

My intention now (and only mine) is to inform everyone looking for gigs to NOT purchase one that has cut marks, no matter how tempting, especially given the rarity. We can't promote this type of behavior. I know want to bring ethics into this debate because I know it'll open up a can of worms, but we need to provide people with the facts and let people decide on their own.

Sorry, I'll step off of the soapbox now.

@ nemoboy1: I still wish you the best of luck and I hope that your anemoness pull through. I know that you didn't intentionally purchase these knowing they were cut. And again, thank you for sharing this with others. Now that we know it's happening, it's definitely something to look out for.

 

[benjaminspades]

Hi guys,

I was the one that provided nemoboy1 with the giganteas. I have been working with giganteas for close to two months now. It was safe to say that I was not aware that they were cut until he told me that they were. I can swear that on my family and every one I hold dear. Ever since I have been working with them, I had assumed that they were just normal that way as I have never seen them in any other different manner. But after having nemoboy1 point it out to me I will be sure to adjust my way of doing things. At first, I thought that he was trying to take advantage of me by trying to get additional gigas but after seeing everyone's response I feel that I am wrong in my assuption, and that I was in the wrong. I apologize if you feel that you were cheated. I feel that it was from my ignorance that I did not know. I feel that posting here at least I can get it out in the open. I am not trying to cheat anyone and the basis to how I do things have always been honest. Let me know how I can make it right.

 

[k.tran]

I've been working with gigs for a while. They come into the wholesalers like this all the time. In my opinion they when the 'eat' themselves this happens. I don't have much pictures but the survival rate of the ones that look 'cut' are much lower than ones with full columns. I actually had one that 'ate' itself and then it looked like this and several days later it died. This is only my experience though. It could that they are cutting them where they are collected and then I see them at the wholesalers like this.

Edit: After seeing the thread on Cipro I will be trying this with multiple gigs to try to make them more available in the community. I have treated gigs before with antibiotics with only the success rate of around 70%.

 

[nemoboy1]

Hi guys,

I was the one that provided nemoboy1 with the giganteas. I have been working with giganteas for close to two months now. It was safe to say that I was not aware that they were cut until he told me that they were. I can swear that on my family and every one I hold dear. Ever since I have been working with them, I had assumed that they were just normal that way as I have never seen them in any other different manner. But after having nemoboy1 point it out to me I will be sure to adjust my way of doing things. At first, I thought that he was trying to take advantage of me by trying to get additional gigas but after seeing everyone's response I feel that I am wrong in my assuption, and that I was in the wrong. I apologize if you feel that you were cheated. I feel that it was from my ignorance that I did not know. I feel that posting here at least I can get it out in the open. I am not trying to cheat anyone and the basis to how I do things have always been honest. Let me know how I can make it right.

I'm not going to say much but this... As per texting you know where I was going with it. I'm not here to get an extra gig as we all know what the going rate is for these animals wholesale wise. You made double if not triple and you didn't have to QT them. I felt like I got cheated as these gigs are harder too keep with full columns and to put stress like slicing them makes it worst. This is a death sentence but I'm going to be optimistic about it but so far it doesn't look too good even with cipro. Cipro to me helps in pathogen but not wounds or slice up animals trying to recover. As of now there are three death counts 2 blues and a purple. I wish I was told this before making a big purchase. You know what needs to be done if I was in your shoes it would already been done so even if one didn't know about the cloning/slicing involved that's just great customer service in my eyes.

 

[benjaminspades]

I'm not going to say much but this... As per texting you know where I was going with it. I'm not here to get an extra gig as we all know what the going rate is for these animals wholesale wise. You made double if not triple and you didn't have to QT them. I felt like I got cheated as these gigs are harder too keep with full columns and to put stress like slicing them makes it worst. This is a death sentence but I'm going to be optimistic about it but so far it doesn't look too good even with cipro. Cipro to me helps in pathogen but not wounds or slice up animals trying to recover. As of now there are three death counts 2 blues and a purple. I wish I was told this before making a big purchase. You know what needs to be done if I was in your shoes it would already been done so even if one didn't know about the cloning/slicing involved that's just great customer service in my eyes.

I'm on it.