Gigantea - where are the zooxanthellae?

[jonnybravo22]

Hi everyone.

Hoping to clarify my understanding a bit on the actual location of zooxanthellae in giganteas. Originally i thought (as i think many do) that they were what gave the anemone it's blue or purple or green coloration.

Then i read an article that said the zooxanthellae were actually brown and they are what gives the nem its flesh color (brown or tan). The colors, the article suggests, are just pigments produced by the nem, which may serve the purpose of shielding the nem from light.

So when I look at a nem that is white / transparent but still has colorful tips, it should i assume it is still devoid of zooxanthellae?

Is this a correct understanding of zooxanthellae in gigantea anemones?

 

[skyrne_isk]

In short, yes - and not just for giganteas. The accent pigments can remain for some time after the zoo is gone, but they are not indicative of the presence of photosynthetic algae.

 

[taylor t]

From what I was told by Mark at Bluezoo, gigs are intentionally void of zoo for shipping. He told me gigs are kept in china under low light conditions for months and fed food so they loose their zoo - INTENTIONALLY, they've had great shipping success internationally with this process - in a box for well over 24 hours. What they feed them, he didn't say. Then once they get here, they're kept under the same low lights (who's going to pay for good lights when it's just a holding bin, sure they MAY be MH, but are they REALLY kept up, and how much area are they trying to "sustain" with them - they've got paychecks/overhead to pay too), they are then sold to us, we blast them with light without acclimating, and kill them. No one tells us when we buy them - they've been intentionally "bleached" for months for international shipping. He insists gigs adjust to high light quickly. I disagree. I'm supprised to read of gigs thriving under high light right away, but I read of it happening. The one's I have, have been VERY slowly acclimated to light. I've killed a shameful amount with the blast it approach. Looking back I see some of my mistakes - thinking they're acclimating better than they do to the "blast" - but, some have success with it.

The 2 gigs I have both had their "color" but no "brownness" to their tissue color. After slow acclimation, they regain the "brown" pigment with the color. I've taken weeks to acclimate them (1 months ago [green], the other just about a month ago from a LFS [a nice purple], still a work in progress) to "worry free", I'm sure several have acclimated them faster, it's just hard to find them period, so I take my time with each one from here on out. Mine, once they got really established, the color pretty much "took over" the color of the whole anemone, almost hiding a majority of the "brown" zoo (I'm guessing here).

I know this because I ordered a blue gig maybe a month ago, it arrived with NO brown zoo, very limited blue coloration. I called him (Mark) after it arrived and complained it was (in my opinion) very poor condition. He explained it all to me and insisted it would recover. He told me to "go ahead and give it high light, they adapt very quickly". After my second conversation of telling him "it expanded again - 2nd time in a week" ...as soon as I hung up the phone, it was on it's way out - deflating. It inflated twice in the week I had it. I knew the moment I got it, it was a gonner, called him on it, and a week later it was a mush pile. It was (IMO) a gonner the second I opened the box, and I could see it, and called them on it. They didn't really want to "help" me on a replacement $200 later - that's fine, I won't use them again. According to their world renowned "experts", they all thought it looked fine. That's a whole other subject of question. I know there's no guarantee with them - it's not DD. I did get some interesting info from him. Just my experience, I'm sure some "more knowledgable" individuals will disagree with their experience.


Short answer, the zoo will come back... If you're "lucky". It's intentionally "removed" for international shipping. Call Mark at Bluezoo for a more "detailed" "explaination". According to him, hundreds of them are done this way, and to me, that explains why they come in waves.

 

[elegance coral]

This is a pic I took of an elegance for a different project, but it may help you out. Most of our corals and anemones have the same two color "types'. The brownish color is produced by zooxanthellae, and the pretty blue, green, red........ are protein based pigments produced by the animal itself. The article you read is correct.

 

[jonnybravo22]

all very helpful replies.

now what's the distinction between "white" and "translucent" flesh? what accounts for white tissue in some places or times and completely clear tissue at others?

 

[phender]

....... It's intentionally "removed" for international shipping. Call Mark at Bluezoo for a more "detailed" "explaination". According to him, hundreds of them are done this way, and to me, that explains why they come in waves.

IME, what he told you is a bunch of B.S.. Only of small percent of giganteas that come in are totally bleached. I see a lot of giganteas at the wholesalers in Los Angeles(including this recent batch) and have for the last 20 years. Most have almost their full compliment of zooxanthellae. Most are in horrible shape, but they have their zooxanthellae. I had one that came in bleached that recovered and did well for over 2 years, but that was the exception rather than the rule.

 

[marc price]

S. gig's manufactured in China omg, my head is still spinning from this one! Thank you Phil!

 

[taylor t]

I'd love to hear of a "heavy hitter" from RC calling them and asking about it, and posting your opinion after your conversation. It's either true, and they are having a very high success rate of survival (not mine from them) with intentional bleaching for international shipping, or it's a lie. It's pretty disappointing to hear the tech department of a RC sponsor flat out lying. I'd LOVE to hear the response of a more knowledgable person after having a conversation with Mark at Bluezoo.

 

[elegance coral]

This is a gigantea I picked up last night. It's typical of the gigantea I see here in Florida. Most of them aren't totally bleached, but they're well on their way. You can see obvious areas of zooxanthellae loss, and areas where some are hanging in there. It is VERY rare to find one here that still has its full complement of zooxanthellae.

 

[jonnybravo22]

oooh la la i just love seeing these things.

elegance, given the precarious zoo position... what are you going to do with it re: lighting? blast / slowly acclimate? please give us some details on how you're going to try to get the zooxanthellae back.

 

[elegance coral]

oooh la la i just love seeing these things.

elegance, given the precarious zoo position... what are you going to do with it re: lighting? blast / slowly acclimate? please give us some details on how you're going to try to get the zooxanthellae back.

I can't say my way is the "right" way, but for now I have it in a 18" deep tank with two 250W 14K MH's about 16" above the water. I'm dosing iodine, and I will be very slowly dropping the lights closer to the tank. Giving the anemone plenty of time to adjust to the lights as I move them in stages. I will be feeding mysis shrimp soaked in vitamins and amino acids every day. Allot of this will depend on how the anemone reacts over the next few weeks.

 

[jonnybravo22]

what's the iodine for? I know some inverts use it for molting purposes but what would a nem use it for?

 

[tufacody]

I have no clue about China's methods, but I do agree 100% that blasting bleached anemones is NOT the way to go, and I'm shocked every time I hear it. My gig is very healthy, and even now responds quite noticeably to any changes in lighting, whether it be PAR, wavelength, or duration. In fact, I'd say my gig is more tolerant to just about anything (water quality, feeding, PH, flow etc) than it is to lighting changes.

I would love to hear more about this China method, as I have no clue why nems with expelled zoo would ship better than healthy ones. Is the theory that they expell the zoo in the bag and that contaminates the nem?

 

[elegance coral]

what's the iodine for? I know some inverts use it for molting purposes but what would a nem use it for?

Iodine nourishes zooxanthellae. If a nem has bleached from low light, or cold temp's, bumping up the iodine level can help the zooxanthellae repopulate the anemone. If the anemone has bleached from over exposure to light, and hasn't been removed from the light, adding iodine can make matters worse. In my situation, I'm fairly confident that the bleaching was caused by a lack of light.

 

[OrionN]

I got my Gigantea that was a little bleached. I got him from the bag at the LFs, It looks OK in the bag on arrival. I took him to my office and drip him in. He settle right under my 250 H DE MH at is about 6 inches above the water. The anemone is about 10 inches under the water and he stay there ever since. He did very well and grew a bunch form about 8 inches to 16 inches over a few months. 250 MH for a Gigantea is hardly blasted it with light but he is doing great and have no problem. I only had him since October 2009.

 

[jonnybravo22]

Re: Gigantea - where are the zooxanthellae?

Any thoughts on the difference between white flesh and translucent flesh with regard to zooxanthellae loss/regrowth?

Is white better than clear? (brown>white>clear)

 

[BonsaiNut]

This is a gigantea I picked up last night. It's typical of the gigantea I see here in Florida. Most of them aren't totally bleached, but they're well on their way. You can see obvious areas of zooxanthellae loss, and areas where some are hanging in there. It is VERY rare to find one here that still has its full complement of zooxanthellae.

Looks like a mertensii to me...

 

[marc price]

...does, and a beautiful one at that! E.C., can you describe the column and or post pix?

 

[dots]

the absence of the zooxanthellae, can be from lack of adequate light or stress killed the population and it was expelled.

The latter seems more "believable" to me, but do admit am not familliar with each way every one is collected and cared for.......

While the "shock" of going from light to no light is no doubt stressful....the logic that someone would actually "starve" the animal to reduce the population of the source of its energy is counter intuitive. For instance, what do runners do before a marathon? Carb load.....they don't starve themselves. Shipping them in more water seems to make a better solution if water quality during shipping is a concern.

The animals only have enough food as what they packed for....and more is better.

What it sounds like.....it was collected, handled mutiple times, boxed, shipped, handled in perhaps multiple water qualities....which killed the strain and as ejected before poisoning the rest of the animal....which can be a result of poor handling.

....which is a more likely for me to believe.....but hey I heard they were comming out with dented cars from the factory too.

Start feeding it meaty foods asap to supplement the loss of energy production to support that amount of tissue, else it will start to diminish in size.

 

[dots]

Any thoughts on the difference between white flesh and translucent flesh with regard to zooxanthellae loss/regrowth?

Is white better than clear? (brown>white>clear)

clear is total absence of pigments and zoo, but without splitting hairs....they are equally troubling be it anything but an example of health.