glass center brace simple questions

[importspeedman]

Hi I have searched the forums for answers and when i search "glass brace" I get a ton of threads and half of them are about acrylic. I did read about a dozen or so threads and didn’t find my answers. I know my questions are probably answered hundreds of times but I am an impatient person sometimes.

I have a really old 80gal glass aquarium with 12mm glass on all sides (don’t know what bottom is or if it is tempered). The aquarium had no center brace when I bought it two years ago and has been full since the day I bought it. About a week ago I took the tank down and resealed it and water tested it about four days later. It held water fine, but before I filled it i measured the center, then I measured the center when it was full. The tank was bowing 1/4 of an inch so I decided to add a brace. I ordered a 12mmx17"x12 piece of glass all edges polished ($30.65 good price?). 17" is how wide the side panel is.

1. Do you think the glass when there is no water in the tank is now permanently bowed from there not being any brace in years?
2. To install the brace should I cut out a 12" section in the silicone at the front and back panel under the plastic brace then resilicone that section when putting the brace between the two panels?
3. If the glass is not bowed it will be a super tight fit so should I fill the tank until it just bows and silicone the brace in place then let out the water from the tank so the panels pinch the brace in place?
4. If the glass is bowed should I use clamps to pinch the brace in place between the two panels?

I know this is a lot of typing for what title implies but i figured that these are simple questions and, I wanted to give a description of my tank so I don’t have to answer that later when someone asks.
Thank you very much.

Import

 

[uncleof6]

1) No. Glass is not like acrylic, and will not "bow permanently" it will simply break, if the bowing is to great.

2) Remove the top plastic rim, remove all traces of old silicone that was used to hold the rim on. Install the center brace, and let it cure. Then reinstall the top rim.

3) Do not fill the tank, allow it to bow, and then install the brace. Have the brace cut down to allow 1 -1.5mm clearance for the silicone to bond the brace in place. Assembling with the bow, just puts undo stress on the glass.

4) Again, the glass will not take permanent "set" so when there is no water in the tank, the glass will not be bowed. You want the front and back glass in a "neutral" position while the silicone cures, so make sure if you use clamps, that the panels are not bowed in, but at the same time are not bowed out.

There are a couple ways to approach this, but they will require that you buy more glass than you already have.

Jim

 

[importspeedman]

Is it ablsolutly nessisary to remove the rim the one I have is four peices held togther by silicone and stapels I would much rather not remove it.

Also i was under the impression that the tighter the silicone is between the glass the stronger the seal is (so why a gap?).

 

[beertech]

It is possible to install the brace with the original plastic trim in place and the new glass strip underneath, if you don't mind seeing it from the front. The gap between the 2 pieces of glass is needed to give as much surface area as possible for the silicone to hold when it fills the gap. It's also very important to not fill the tank until the silicone has set for at least 24 hrs, or it will let go suddenly.........
Hope this helps,

Gord

 

[importspeedman]

The rim does not overlap the glass, it just sits on top and covers about an inch of the outside of the tank.

so I was planning on just cutting a foot out of the silicone that is helping hold the rim on (i should have thought about adding the brace when I resealed my tank). this will be plenty space to where nobody will be able to see the brace.

I understand that i dont want water in the tank when the silicone is curing, I was just going to use the pressure of the water to help separate the panels a couple of millimeters so it would be easier to get the brace in place then let the water out so that the silicone will be pinched between the front and back panel.

the silicone will have at least 2 to 3 days to cure.

Is it true that the tighter the silicone it the stronger the seal?

Thank you guys on the feedback it is really appreciated.

 

[tkeracer619]

No, you need silicone between the joints. If you squeeze it all out it will not be as strong. Also, if it needs to flex it can if there is room.

Also if there is not enough gap you could get the panel wedged between the front and back. Can be scary as you think the tank is going to shatter at any moment due to the noise of grinding glass.

 

[uncleof6]

The rim does not overlap the glass, it just sits on top and covers about an inch of the outside of the tank.

so I was planning on just cutting a foot out of the silicone that is helping hold the rim on (i should have thought about adding the brace when I resealed my tank). this will be plenty space to where nobody will be able to see the brace.

I understand that i dont want water in the tank when the silicone is curing, I was just going to use the pressure of the water to help separate the panels a couple of millimeters so it would be easier to get the brace in place then let the water out so that the silicone will be pinched between the front and back panel.

the silicone will have at least 2 to 3 days to cure.

Is it true that the tighter the silicone it the stronger the seal?

Thank you guys on the feedback it is really appreciated.

You want NO water in the tank. (this is the issue-- it may not have broken before, it just might this time.) If the brace does not fit in easily with a 1mm - 1.5mm gap at each end, with the sides neutral (no stress on them) the brace is too long, and needs to be cut down.

The right way to do it, (and there are no other right ways with this) is to remove the rim, clean all silicone residue, (a bit of work) install the brace when the glass is squeaky clean. Let it cure a few days, reinstall the rim, let it cure a WEEK. Then water test it.

Regards,

Jim

 

[importspeedman]

Thank you guys very much, the help is greatly appreciated.

I will do what you guys sugest but taking the rim off. The reason for this is that that rim on this tank is super old and I dont think I will be able to get it off without destroying it. I will however take all precautions I possibly can to get the glass as clean as possible.

when the glass comes in on wednesday or thursday, and when i get it ill sand or grind down one of the edges if it came back perfect from the supplyer.

Again thank you guys very much for all your help.

 

[uncleof6]

Thank you guys very much, the help is greatly appreciated.

I will do what you guys sugest but taking the rim off. The reason for this is that that rim on this tank is super old and I dont think I will be able to get it off without destroying it. I will however take all precautions I possibly can to get the glass as clean as possible.

when the glass comes in on wednesday or thursday, and when i get it ill sand or grind down one of the edges if it came back perfect from the supplyer.

Again thank you guys very much for all your help.

Simple solution for old rim: Get a new rim for it. Do it right, do it once.

Good luck,

Jim

 

[importspeedman]

Simple solution for old rim: Get a new rim for it. Do it right, do it once.

Good luck,

Jim

I have tryed several LFS's in my area when I resealed my tank, and they dont seem to want to help me with getting one. I know I can order one from glass cages but I am on a tight budget for the next month, so even $30 from them is putting my wallet at a strain.

If I see any strain from this project after water testing ill keep the setup down untill I have the money to do it "right". Untill then my fish will have to deal with the rubbermaid container they are homing.

thank you jim

 

[importspeedman]

Oh Jim i have one more question. To reseal my tank I used DAP 100% silicone rubber sealent. Would this be ok to use for the brace or do you think rtv108 will be more approprite. Only reason I am asking is because I dont know if the DAP will be as structualy stong for the seam.

 

[uncleof6]

RTV108 is the choice, most others pale by comparison in the Product Data Sheets.

Jim

 

[importspeedman]

Thank you ill try to get to grainger later this week to pick up a tube.

 

[importspeedman]

Hey Jim
From what I have read over the past couple months, you seem very omniscient when it comes to tank repair or build. I was wondering why you believe it is so important for me to take the rim off the tank to add this center brace?

 

[importspeedman]

I got the glass in today and went to grainger to pick up the silicone. I will be adding this digging out the silicone tonight and hopefully intalling it, unless I hear somthing that will really chang my mind about how I install the brace. when I dry fit the brace it seems that have about a toothpick worth of space on one side.

 

[uncleof6]

Hey Jim
From what I have read over the past couple months, you seem very omniscient when it comes to tank repair or build. I was wondering why you believe it is so important for me to take the rim off the tank to add this center brace?

I would not say omniscient, I am just very tenacious with attention to the details, and there IS a right way and a wrong way to do things. Do things the right way, the results are predictable; take short cuts, side steps, "the cheap way out," the "easy" way out-- what have you, the results are not predictable.

Most if not all rims cover the position of the brace you are attempting to install. You need to see the seam. In other words you cannot see what you are doing. IME, you cannot clean the glass sufficiently for good adhesion of the silicone, with the rim in place. This is the short cut, side step, easy way out. If the seams do not hold, it certainly will not be the "cheap way out." The results are unpredictable.

LFS won't help you get a rim? No problem: find another LFS, and don't go back to the first one. The only way they will listen-- is to kick them in the pocket book.

What would I do with the tank? Trash the top rim, and put a euro on it. Call it a day.

Jim

 

[importspeedman]

I see what you are saying. I was debating or going euro, when I reasealed my tank, but I would have to change pretty much the whole setup of the tank (right way). After considering this for a while I desided it wasnt worth the trouble, so I just went ahead and resealed the tank.
After reading through forums that people were replacing their center brace, I started wondering if my tank was bowing. This is when I found out it was.
I have now decided that I will do this fix the "easy way out" and get myself a new tank for christmas.

Thank you very much jim
I am sorry if you feel responding to my questions was a waste of time.
I really feel appreciative of all your help.

import

P.S. If my tank busts ill send you pics of the carnage. (LOL hope I dont need to send you any pics).

 

[importspeedman]

ok just finished I have a change of plans. When I get the extra cash I am going to rip the rim off (in part to see how bad of a seal job I did) and make this tank a sump for my next setup.

 

[uncleof6]

I see what you are saying. I was debating or going euro, when I reasealed my tank, but I would have to change pretty much the whole setup of the tank (right way). After considering this for a while I desided it wasnt worth the trouble, so I just went ahead and resealed the tank.
After reading through forums that people were replacing their center brace, I started wondering if my tank was bowing. This is when I found out it was.
I have now decided that I will do this fix the "easy way out" and get myself a new tank for christmas.

Thank you very much jim
I am sorry if you feel responding to my questions was a waste of time.
I really feel appreciative of all your help.

import

P.S. If my tank busts ill send you pics of the carnage. (LOL hope I dont need to send you any pics).

Tis never a waste of time, the only thing that is a waste of time is: Doing the same thing, the same way, over and over again, with bad results, and expecting the outcome to change. That does not really define wasting time, but rather INSANITY. So i am either helpful, or insane-- but not wasting time

You're welcome.

Jim

 

[Rhodophyta]

Is it ablsolutly nessisary to remove the rim the one I have is four peices held togther by silicone and stapels I would much rather not remove it.

Also i was under the impression that the tighter the silicone is between the glass the stronger the seal is (so why a gap?).

The plastic frame may be very hard to remove, and it may be even harder to put back if it's old or like yours, made of separate pieces. It should not have to be removed.

The four piece frames tend to be very old tanks, so it may have been designed with no center brace. There are other reasons than bowing for a brace. It is safer since light strips and lids are less likely to fall into the tank.

A one eighth inch thick silicone seal was believed strongest. Early tanks were built to have that kind of seal but they don't look as nice as tight ones and use more silicone. If correct, any thicker or thinner loses strength and that is critical on center braces.