Good, beginner, non-coral threatening, Starfish?

S

Spork3245

New member
My gf REALLY wants a starfish, (not a brittle or serpent!), however, I currently have some mushroom coral which I kinda like in my 90 gallon FOWLR tank and have been debating on getting some more, brighter colored, mushrooms and maybe zoa and/or Kenya to complete a "basic coral" look to my tank.
Most of the Starfish I seem to look-up are either listed as difficult or get to be over/close to a foot in length/diameter (!), are there any that would suite my tank and won't go crazy killing/eating my limited/future corals or is my gf SOL in this instance (even she wants one that stays small so she can name it "button" hahaha)? Astrea stars need not apply :p

Thanks!
 
Fromia species is as close to your girlfriends wants as you are going to get. If you find any other species that matches her criteria please let me know. I'd like one myself!
And uh,
You know your tank should be at least a year old before adding a starfish, right?
 
Hmm, liveaquaria says that Fromia sea stars must never touch air while handling - How do I get them into my tank without the "outside" aquarium water contaminating my tank? :sad2:
Normally I drip acclimate for 60-90 minutes, pour the water from the baggie through a net to catch the critter inside it and drop the critter into my DT or QT.
 
Spork, I had that same problem acclimating sponges.
What I did was buy a couple of those plastic holding containers that hang on the side of the tank. You know the ones all the fish stores have to hold the fish after they catch it for you?
I hang it inside the tank, that will acclimate the temp. Set the bag of the new acquisition into the holding container and cut the bag off from the bottom. Water, specimen and all go into the holding container, air free. Now you can take your time acclimating the water. Once fully acclimated, siphon off the container water and replace with tank water. Once you feel that all the store water is gone and the specimen rinsed with your tank water, you can lower the container into your tank. No air at all. It works well. Those plastic containers work great.
 
Whiterabbitrage said:
Spork, I had that same problem acclimating sponges.
What I did was buy a couple of those plastic holding containers that hang on the side of the tank. You know the ones all the fish stores have to hold the fish after they catch it for you?
I hang it inside the tank, that will acclimate the temp. Set the bag of the new acquisition into the holding container and cut the bag off from the bottom. Water, specimen and all go into the holding container, air free. Now you can take your time acclimating the water. Once fully acclimated, siphon off the container water and replace with tank water. Once you feel that all the store water is gone and the specimen rinsed with your tank water, you can lower the container into your tank. No air at all. It works well. Those plastic containers work great.
Click to expand...

Hmmm, I do have one of those containers, but how can I be sure all the potentially bad water is gone? I guess it's the best answer for a terrible situation though. Hmmm... Gotta think this through lol :fish2:
 
Linckia multifora are very hardy, stay small and bother nothing. A few seconds of air contact isn't going to hurt a sea star. However, I wouldn't put a star in a new tank - wait at least six months, a year is better.
 
I think the starfish and air thing is a myth, and has been recognized as such. Mine frequently crawl to the surface and hang pretty much half in and out, and if they are at the surface when I turn off the pump or do water changes, they either move down with the water or don't seem to care. Sponges, on the other hand, need not to have air trapped in their bodies, and can die. Acclimation is not super-important to a sponge, however, as it is for a starfish. I agree that the Linkia Multiflora (dalmation linkia) is about as likely to make it as any, and reiterate that none of the traditional stars have the food source available in a new tank, and that even in a big tank and after a year or more, most of the traditional stars are going to dwindle and die. That's ALL the fromias and almost all the linkias. I suggest the "Harlequin Serpent"
http://finaddictsaltwaterfish.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=251

(I don't know this vendor - I just google imaged for one that looked typical)

or the "Elegant Brittle Star"

http://www.vibrantsea.net/brittle16_bunaken1.htm

your best of the alternatives, for which you don't have to wait any, and who would possibly appease your GF in the meantime, while being interesting and VERY likely to survive, in addition to contributing to keeping your tank free of detritus and being 100% reef safe. The Elegant brittle (it's got to be dark black and yellow bands like the one in the picture) likes to be out on top of the rocks and will be easy to see almost always, while the Harlequin is a beautiful green and white, and will be seen a lot less. Orange or red serpents are also easy to keep and don't require waiting. They will come out when there is food in the water, but not stay out all the time.

And you don't really have to get out ALL of the bag water, just get most of what has been in with a stressed and shipped specimen that "breathes and poops" in it. Or any water from a source you don't trust.

Welcome to the hobby! You're gonna love it.
 
finsurgeon said:
I think the starfish and air thing is a myth, and has been recognized as such. Mine frequently crawl to the surface and hang pretty much half in and out, and if they are at the surface when I turn off the pump or do water changes, they either move down with the water or don't seem to care. Sponges, on the other hand, need not to have air trapped in their bodies, and can die. Acclimation is not super-important to a sponge, however, as it is for a starfish. I agree that the Linkia Multiflora (dalmation linkia) is about as likely to make it as any, and reiterate that none of the traditional stars have the food source available in a new tank, and that even in a big tank and after a year or more, most of the traditional stars are going to dwindle and die. That's ALL the fromias and almost all the linkias. I suggest the "Harlequin Serpent"
http://finaddictsaltwaterfish.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=251

(I don't know this vendor - I just google imaged for one that looked typical)

or the "Elegant Brittle Star"

http://www.vibrantsea.net/brittle16_bunaken1.htm

your best of the alternatives, for which you don't have to wait any, and who would possibly appease your GF in the meantime, while being interesting and VERY likely to survive, in addition to contributing to keeping your tank free of detritus and being 100% reef safe. The Elegant brittle (it's got to be dark black and yellow bands like the one in the picture) likes to be out on top of the rocks and will be easy to see almost always, while the Harlequin is a beautiful green and white, and will be seen a lot less. Orange or red serpents are also easy to keep and don't require waiting. They will come out when there is food in the water, but not stay out all the time.

And you don't really have to get out ALL of the bag water, just get most of what has been in with a stressed and shipped specimen that "breathes and poops" in it. Or any water from a source you don't trust.

Welcome to the hobby! You're gonna love it.
Click to expand...

Nope, def would not, she *hates* both of those starfish types and I'm not a big fan myself which is why I said "not a brittle or serpent" in my OP :D.
I know it's probably rare, but I'd be a bit worried that one would snatch my cleaner shrimp if hungry as they can be predatory from what I've read. Regardless, don't want one. Thanks for the suggestions and info though :)

PS: My tank is 6 months old this coming month :bdaysmile:
 
Whiterabbitrage said:
Fromia species is as close to your girlfriends wants as you are going to get. If you find any other species that matches her criteria please let me know. I'd like one myself!
And uh,
You know your tank should be at least a year old before adding a starfish, right?
Click to expand...

I would ONLY get fromia sp. because of many reasons

1. reef safe
2. fish and invert safe
3. don't get too huge and take up alot of space.
4. I just like their appearence best of all... with the exception of red knobbed.
 
I hear what you're saying, and I hate to harp on the negatives, but ALL the Fromias die. Mine all have, and all yours will. If they've been treated well by the suppliers, shipped well, and acclimated well, the odds of having enough rock with enough of what they eat are still poor. There may be some exceptions, but in general, they don't make it in our tanks. I have to admit that I'm not proud of the number I've tried over the past 8 and a half years. Anyone on the board ever have one live over a year?
 
finsurgeon said:
I hear what you're saying, and I hate to harp on the negatives, but ALL the Fromias die. Mine all have, and all yours will. If they've been treated well by the suppliers, shipped well, and acclimated well, the odds of having enough rock with enough of what they eat are still poor. There may be some exceptions, but in general, they don't make it in our tanks. I have to admit that I'm not proud of the number I've tried over the past 8 and a half years. Anyone on the board ever have one live over a year?
Click to expand...

Tanks need to be atleast 1 year established if not longer. Picture it like dragonets, you need enough food source to breed (or in this case spread) over time to forever supply it. You had stars, after stars, after stars which kept eating it not giving the film aglae time to spread. I had mine in my 29 gallon reef for months... then I moved it in my mantis tank (freak accident in 29) and it stayed in the same spot from shock and later I found what looked like a marker... almost like a detective drew with a marker the death scene. Very delicate animals.. I agree.
 
Calappidae said:
Tanks need to be atleast 1 year established if not longer.
Click to expand...

I can't believe people still fall for this stuff. The uninformed like to say the same thing about anemones. There is no set timeframe for introducing inverts. They don't know if you tank is 6 mos or a year. The important factor is that your tank is cycled and stable.
 
tatuaje08 said:
I can't believe people still fall for this stuff. The uninformed like to say the same thing about anemones. There is no set timeframe for introducing inverts. They don't know if you tank is 6 mos or a year. The important factor is that your tank is cycled and stable.
Click to expand...

No, they need a really established tank.. Fromias only eat film algae invisisble to the naked eye.. its their only food source and survival rate of the star depends on if there is enough food to last them.. that and stable water.
 
Uh yeah that's what I said...stable. you cannot put a specific timeframe on 'stable.'. Therefore 12 mos, 6 mos etc really is inaccurate.
 
tatuaje08 said:
Uh yeah that's what I said...stable. you cannot put a specific timeframe on 'stable.'. Therefore 12 mos, 6 mos etc really is inaccurate.
Click to expand...

The tank must be stable FOR those timeframes. 1 year for dragonets is to let copepods multiply for ever-lasting food supply. Fromia starfish needs 1 year for it's food source to multiply... and both requir a big tank as their won't be enough in 10s or 20 gallons even after the timeframe. For anemones and jellyfish water quality is involved like you said., the tank needs to be really stable.. FOR 6 MONTHS STRIAGHT as the slightest swing will kill them. I had a 55 gallon tank that was really really stable and 2 condy anemones died in it overnight after intro and 3 hour acclimation, and took everything else with them but a few snails. On the other hand my jellies are doing fine inside a container in my reef as thats been stable for 6 months striaght. Sure its possible, but with the star and dragonets it litteraly has to be that well established. Anemones you can't trust as they could die and take everything with them easily with a slight swing in water quality and it is a must that you know your tank ain't going to have those swings.. and even when we're sure they might later on anyway, thats why we all say let the tank be stable for 6 months for anemones to reduce risk of problems and wipe-outs of the whole tank. When you follow the rule book your reducing the risk of costly and messy problems long-term insteaqd of following your own rules. Sure, its possible to do such things as keep the tank that stable and unestablished, but its asking for lots of trouble in the long run... I went through that trial and error multiple times...:spin2:
 
Please stop spreading rumors. Thank you. Nothing in this hobby is absolute, especially what this topic is about.
 
tatuaje08 said:
Please stop spreading rumors. Thank you. Nothing in this hobby is absolute, especially what this topic is about.
Click to expand...

What you think is a rumor, billions more aggree its a fact. You can go ahead and do your own thing and not heed anyone's warnings, thats your decision to put your animals at risk like that but IMO I rather stick to the rule book and sleep at night without worry of whats dying this time.
 
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