Green Mandarin (Synchiropus splendidus) Breeding Log!

[apistomaster]

Matt,
Great microphotos. Given the size of an adult mandarin mouth with the microscope you might be able to gauge the size of the larvae mouths and then the size of the food organisms. I realize that it is likely that even if the size is right the larvae may be specialized feeders and of what would be difficult to determine in an artificial reef. Have you tried a marine infusoria yet? It will still be very difficult to balance density of bugs and water quality.

 

[mwp]

"Marine Infusoria" - basically I think the marine equivelent of "Infusoria" is the various phytoplanktons I've added in, basically...

Matt

 

[apistomaster]

I recently bought a new binocular micro with 100X oil immersion objective and all the bells and whistles. I still have to spend $250 more to get the camera adapter. I find them a great adjunct piece of equipment for serious aquarists. BTW, I've built 4 Sage rods. My favorites. Just bought a VT2 4pc, 9', 5wt, ready made.
Larry

 

[apistomaster]

Did'nt know you were there. The culture would be a mixture of many things, bacteria, algae, and protozoans. The latter would be the goal. They are motile and are animal protein.
Larry

 

[mwp]

Well, I could always try for ciliates. The big one though that would be highly beneficial would be planktonic copepod larvae.

Of course, none of that really matters if I can't hatch out all the eggs to begin with! Starting with only 10-20 larvae isn't really a productive route to go...sure it's better than nothing but in the end it's going to make the chances for success very slim.

Matt

 

[apistomaster]

I think you will solve the low hatch rate problem so you'll have many more larvae to guage your technique's effectiveness when it comes to feeding them, Matt. Do you UV spawning tank? It will not interfere with fertilization. Also consider egg disinfectants used prior to tranfer to hatching tank. I'm thinking of povidone iodine solutions not methylene or acriflavine. It's a quick dip then into the hatch tank. I know some sources.
Larry

 

[mwp]

Larry, an egg dip sounds interesting and would truly keep things sterile...I already have copepods in the larval tank that must have come in with the water from the parental tank.

Matt

 

[apistomaster]

To share with this thread followers the chemical used in salmon hatcheries is 1% providone iodine. It is available at the drug store. Ask your pharacist to assist you so that you don't buy a formulation containing detergent for scrub up. You should only use plain 1% providone iodine. The correct dilution for egg disinfectant must be determined from experiment and some more research on this subject. I make no claim of expertise in this
Larry

 

[Kathy55g]

Thanks for the light bedtime reading, Matt. Things have been slow here lately....

 

[mwp]

Well, we've basically done this "by the book" and all I have to show are 2 remaining larvae that both look skinny this evening...granted I'm due for both cardinalfish and goby larvae SOON (I think the gobies will hatch out tonight or tomorrow morning)...they may get the larval tank for a while. The mandarins have not been showing any additional interest in spawning; of course this weekend they got food cut back a bit, and today they got a fast day. SATURATION FEEDING DEFINITELY plays a role in how frequently the spawn - sometimes the obvious things are what matter most!

Guess it's time to rethink my mandarin strategy again and I may go all the way back to parental diet. I've read several folks are able to get them trained onto pellets, which are likely more nutrient dense than any of my enriched frozen foods...might be worth a shot.

On a sad note, the existing tiny Red Scooter Blenny female died today; she had been refusing food for the last 2 days and had become skinny. Not 100% sure WHY it happened, but I think I am blaming the juvenile wrasse that she shared the tank with. I was on the lookout anyways for an adult Red Scooter Blenny female anyways, now it looks like I'll be looking for 2! Anyone know an online vendor who has them and is actually willing to take the 5 seconds to SEX THEM (I still can't believe DFS won't sex a species as easy as these).

I'm already pretty tired tonight, but MAY take the time to observe the mandarin larvae under the microscope again and see what we see....

FWIW,

Matt

 

[mwp]

HA HA HA those DARN FISH ARE COURTING...was sitting here, trying to fix my email and heard a splash..instantly turned off the pumps and took a look...they haven't spawned yet, but they're definitely going to try tonight....so much for "starving" them for a day

MP

 

[mwp]

Sometime between 12:02 AM and 12:13 AM we've had ANOTHER SPAWN!. I've harvested out the eggs, looks around 500 or so based on what I've counted in earlier spawns.

I have NO CLUE what I'm going to do here...you'll all have to wait and see!

(FWIW, this is the 26th observed spawn since April 14th, still averaging out to a spawn every 4 days)

Matt

 

[mwp]

So I tried something REALLY DIFFERENT this time around. I've been using a gladware container for egg collection...it holds 9.5 oz - still using the pipette with the end enlarged (by trimming it back) to harvest the eggs from the tank, then simply depositing them into the gladware until I do what I do with them!

I filled it up most of the way (probably around 9 oz). I then diluted 1 drop of Formalin and 1 drop of Methelyne Blue in parental water, utilizing 1/10th of that as a treatment for the water. Intrigued yet?

There is NO circulation in this container, but I was worried about temperature regulation. TO MY SURPRISE, guess what? The container fits PERFECTLY into the first chamber (on the left) of my 24 gallon Cube's filtration, setting in perfectly, the rim holding it up. So...the tank water will flow AROUND the container without actually any water flowing through, keeping the temperature stable. Basically we're stagnant except with air circulation above (this is an older style cube where the fans circulate air over the top of the entire aquarium vs. only the enclosed lighting compartment).

Considering that I don't just want to throw the eggs in the larval tank (which is basically rotifers, phyto and a few remaining larvae), nor has anything else worked out really well, so WHAT THE HECK, right? If I get a 100% hatch rate I'm suddenly a genius (with a lot of help from all the folks who I've emailed etc..). So the water isn't sterile, and heck, I didn't even bother to see if I could use Formalin and MB in combination...whatever...basically until I get it RIGHT every batch of eggs is doomed anyway!

I shot a bunch of pics with the microscope...those will come in a bit.

Matt

 

[mwp]

OK, more pics of the mandarin larvae under the microscope!

96 hour old larvae, notice the "jawline"

2 larvae, '96'er' on the left, possibly a 72 hour old on the right.

72 hour old larvae??? Notice the wierd jawline...

Again, 2 larvae, suspected 72 hour old larvae on left, 96 hour old bottom right.

200X of the wierd "jaw" on a suspected 72 hour old larvae

A sampling of eggs at 60X from tonight's spawn.

So yeah, the wierd thing is that I have 3 confirmed larvae left as of this evening. Looking at the larvae shot yesterday, it has this wierd downward gaping mouth. 2 of the larvae had that today, whereas the third has the "trapdoor" underslung jawline that opens and closes normally. NOT SURE what that's all about just yet. If tomorrow they ALL have the normal looking functional jaw, then that'll answer my questions and tell me at this point I had one larvae to 96 hours, the other 2 were at 72 hours. Either that or I have some deformities already?

FWIW,

Matt

 

[Kathy55g]

Nice pix! My clowns grew out of jaw deformities except for the extreme cases--they pre-empted me from culling by dying on their own.

 

[apistomaster]

Matt,
More good microphotos. The jaw does'nt look quite right at all does it? At least you continue to have eggs to work with and are building an excellent record of your progress. Makes me want to share the pain. So are doing this all in 24gal nanos or are the mandarins in a larger reef? Mine were in a 125 when they spawned and I never tried to work with the larvae. I sure don't know how I would feed them. I thinks the few that have been tr were at in installations with access to tropical ocean and were feed microplankton collected from the sea. Trying to do it inland is a major challenge.
Larry

 

[apistomaster]

That apistomaster should not post before he has finished his coffee in the morning cuz he can't spell worth a dam.

 

[mwp]

FWIW, I only found 1 mandarin larvae this morning, and then around 10:00 the GreenBanded Gobies started hatching! They're all in the larval tank. FWIW, I did a quick water test - SG 1.025, pH 8.1, Ammonia and Nitrite 0 ppm. The tank was LOADED with SS-Strain rotifers and the water had cleared a bit of phytoplankton, so maybe I'll at least get some success with the GBG's for a change!!!

Not giving up on the Mandarins however...but the GBG's at least are easier and if reared to settlement could provide a bit of income!

Matt

 

[mwp]

I thought this might be REALLY interesting; below is one of the 72-hour mandarin larvae pics at 60X, followed by NEWLY HATCHED Greenbanded Goby larvae, at 60X. Notice the HUGE size difference!

NO WONDER MANDARINS are more difficult to raise!

Matt

 

[apistomaster]

Matt,
That was a good comparison of the size differences between the genus. That was what I was trying to get you to consider. Finding the right first foods for mandarins would be hard for anyone even if you set up shop where they are being caught. Finding right size and kind of organisms they feed on would be very hard for anyone.
It may be that the time is not here yet when mandarins can be raised in captivity inland.