Green Mandarin (Synchiropus splendidus) Breeding Log!

[mwp]

4-29-06 - I arrived back home around 8:00 PM to find that all the eggs were on the bottom except one that was floating. Apparently there wasn't quite enough current in the kriesel? Well, I'm not really sure, I upped it a little and got them all going again, but around 10:45 I checked and again they were all on the bottom. I'm not really sure what this means...for that matter I'm not really sure how this differs from the "Stirrer" method which either creates downward or upward or circular (horizontal) flow...I just have circular vertical flow. HMM

Anyway, the eggs are for the most part still clear with white spots (developing embryos?). A few empty shells are floating around, but for the most part the eggs look OK. I welcome the thoughts of anyone with more experience!

MP

 

[rsman]

so whats the news?? any update?

 

[mwp]

Well, I've been sick most of the day...I got up and checked the eggs around 10 AM and they were once again on the bottom. NO good in my book, so I upped the air flow even more...for the most part the rest of the day they have stayed in circulation, although there are still some resting on the bottom.

I feel like I'm slowing losing eggs, especially each episode when I find them on the bottom. By the same token, it seems that IF I'm going to get enough current to keep them in suspension it may be too violent of a ride. There are definitely some that have not made it as I'm either finding shells or clumpy white masses. The eggs that still look good have white dots on them...granted some of the information I've read suggests that by now (48 hours) they should already be hatching? Other sources suggest tomorrow (72 hours). HMMMMMMMM.

All I can say for now is wish me luck and hope for the best!

Matt

 

[jnowell]

Matt, sounds like my kreisel might not be the end all solution. If the eggs actually change bouyancy (as it sounds like they do) I can't imagine how to mod it to get it working. Maybe do the full setup with the incoming water too, but run the syphon all the way down near the bottom of the tank so it keep them from sticking to the bottom.

With that happening, I bet you could reduce the airflow and give them a more gentle ride.

Good luck man! Since I started reading this thread, the mandarins at LFS practically bag themselves when I'm in there....must resist......

Jason

 

[mwp]

Well Jason, this morning I still had eggs floating around in the Kriesel...and probably today is the day...when I get back home I'm gonna check out an egg or two under my 10X loop and see what I can see....

MP

 

[Kathy55g]

Could the attached copepods be weighing them down, decreasing their bouyancy?

 

[mwp]

Possibly.....I really gotta get a closer look at them this evening to see what's going on...I should say that it doesn't look like the copepods are still all over the eggs though.

HMMMMMM

 

[mwp]

5-1-06 - 11:00 pm - Alrighty guys, I'm really not sure what's up at this point. Most all of the eggs are GONE from the kriesel. I found a few sitting on the tank floor outside the Kriesel today - sucked one up and looked at the white mass through 10X (best magnification I have). At best, maybe there's an embryo in there, but it just looks kinda like a swirled creamy mass with a darker brown/tan spot at one side. I'm clueless what's going on at this point. Thoughts?

MP

 

[mwp]

BTW, it's probably worth mentioning that I found a couple empty shells and well...I scanned the entire kreisel and 10 gallon for any larvae...didn't find anything, only lots of copepods and the few eggs that somehow got out of the kriesel today.

Matt

 

[mwp]

One more note for the evening (as I get to turn in early for a 6:30 AM wakeup call) - I added 4 "basters" of my phytoplankton mix to the larval tank...just in case. It's a random mix of Tetraselmis, Nannochloris and Nannochloropsis and MAYBE there was some Isocrysis in this batch (the starter culture I got from Dan @ Seahorsesource.com was GREAT and took off like a rocket).

MP

 

[mwp]

Well, we're halfway into the fourth day and I don't see any larvae and all the eggs are gone. How tough are these little guys to see???!? (if they're even in there).

Worst case, I have a kreisel now when I need it

MP

 

[mwp]

5-3-06 - 11:30 PM (turned out the lights early tonight around 11:00 - 11:05 or so), WE HAVE SPAWN #3!

Details to come.

Matt

 

[mwp]

So, here's what's gone down in the last half hour. Roughly 2/3 to 3/4 of the spawn went back into the Kriesel...had to do something and wanted to give it another shot. Currently I'm concocting some sort of "stirrer" but not going with the traditional manual lego/airplane propeller setup - I wasn't prepared for that.

Since I haven't seen one of these in actual action, I can only assume that the stirring causes some sort of clockwise/counterclockwise horizontal circulation within the vessel. Furthermore, it sounds like there is a slight downward flow perhaps in some. SOOOOO...

My slipshod attempt will utilize a spare Minijet 404 pump, a 2 liter bottle, some bridal veil and some rubberbands. Lets see if this works...

I'll post some pics of the kreisel and stirrer sometime soon...would love some feedback. Again, I haven't noticed ANY larvae from the last spawn.

Matt

 

[mwp]

BTW, I got REAL lucky catching this spawn...I literally walked into the room and saw it happen. I would have TOTALLY missed this one had it not been for luck.

Matt

 

[mwp]

OK, so now it's 12:25 AM and I think I have it all set up. I set up the "stirrer" and added some eggs I had set aside, PLUS I found about another 50-100 floating around the spawning tank, so at best there could be as much as 50% of the spawn in each incubation "method".

I have the minijet 404 on the lowest setting and it appears to be keeping the eggs moving around just a bit slower than the Kriesel. Some of the eggs are on the surface, others are in the water column at the outer edges as far as 75% down in the 2 liter. What I can't tell (and won't be able to see in this design) is if any eggs are getting trapped in the mesh at the bottom of the vessel. The flow is sooo slow though that I suspect it wouldn't be a huge issue anyways.

HMMMMMMMMM.

Wish me tons of luck - as always any advice or thoughts are welcome!

MP

 

[mako56]

Very very cool, wish I had some feed back to give ya but I have never tried anything with eggs yet. I do hope to someday if my pair spawn so get er done :lol:. Thanks allot for posting all this great info and TONS OF LUCK to you.

 

[simion3]

WOW this thread is awesome! :thumbsup: I hope everything works out and they hatch. Good luck!

 

[mwp]

OK, so I'm kinda perturbed with myself for not checking back on something sooner Mai's article sights the hatch time as 72 hours for S. picturatus. I've found varying hatch times for S. splendidus ranging from 1-3 days as well.

HOWEVER, I just reread an article that I obtained entitled "Early Development of the mandarinfish, Synchiropus splendidus (Callionymidae), with notes on its fishery and potential for culture" by YVONNE SADOVY, GEORGE MITCHESON and MARIA B. RASOTTO- I believe Ed was kind enough to forward me on a copy (thanks again). Well, it turns out that the actual "HATCH" occurs between 12-16 hours after spawning (between 74 and 78.5 F respectively). SOOOOOO...by noon tomorrow I need to pull out some of those "eggs" and look at them under 10X to see what's really going on.

It also turns out that according to their observations, yolk absorption occurs within 36 hours. Settlement is supposed to occur within 14 days. In a nutshell, It sounds like I should start straining my rotifers and copepods through the 50 micron and on down to maybe 10 to provide some of the smallest foods possible starting as early as tomorrow.

Well, this is all just great, I'm supposed to leave for Iowa starting Friday afternoon and returning Sunday evening...hopefully I can get Renee and the new puppy to feed the Mandarin Babies in-between (if we're lucky enough to get some).

One last interesting observation for the evening - on this particular spawn I noticed a number of the eggs appeared to have air bubbles...most likely it was just air bubbles attached during the spawning event. None the less, I hadn't seen this before.

FWIW, my estimate of spawn size is definitely on the high side of 200-300 this time around. Some of the larger clusters of eggs had as many as 30 in them, with MANY (20+ clusters) having 4-5 eggs, + all the single ones). Maybe down the road I'll actually count them before incubating them sometime....

Matt

 

[mwp]

OK, some pictures and some videos.

First the Kriesel - a full size shot 'cause you can see the eggs floating around in it if you look closely. This is exclusively air driven. Currently, most of the eggs are still circulating in the water column. The picture is HUGE, so I've linked to it vs. putting it inline here.

http://www.cichlidrecipe.com/nanoreef/DSCN2040_big.jpg

Video of the Kriesel in action (about 4 mb, quicktime)
http://www.cichlidrecipe.com/nanoreef/DSCN2031.mov

Next, the new MiniJet Driven Incubator - in this one, the eggs all appear to be floating, although again you'll see that since there is so much bridal veil at the bottom I really couldn't see the eggs if they had sunk anyway. HMMMMMMMM. The eggs that are floating at the top are very gently circulating...it sounds like a similar situation to what RSMAN described with the propeller/lego stirrer setups.

And video of the stirrer in action:

http://www.cichlidrecipe.com/nanoreef/DSCN2032.mov

That's it for now...I guess in the next couple hours I should pull some samples to look at with the loop and see if we've had a "hatch" or not.

Matt

 

[mwp]

Mandarin - Viable Eggs?

Mandarin - Viable Eggs?

5-4-06, 11:55 PM - Took my first look at 10X - THE EGGS ARE DEFINITELY FERTILE!!!

Here's a picture of roughly 12.5 hours post spawn, 2 eggs (one looks good, the other I think is no good). These 2 are sitting on my desk for the rest of the day, I'll check in on them periodically to see what happens (afterall, this is supposed to be "hatch" time now). These 2 eggs were harvested from the Kriesel.

(FWIW, this egg photo was shot with a Nikon Coolpix 5700 in macro, hand-held, shutter speed around 60. The eggs are on a microscope slide resting on a LED flashlight....it's the closest setup I have to any kind of real microscope right now).

One last note, at 10X I can see tiny tiny tiny things swimming around (could be ciliates?). They're "microscopic" when compared to a rotifer. If I get a hatch, maybe the Mandarin larvae can eat THESE? IN any event, this evening I'm going to start seiving my cultures for small food.