Green Mandarin (Synchiropus splendidus) Breeding Log!
- Thread starter mwp
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mwp
In Memoriam
LOL, no more have shown up this evening..it's been a while. I'm going to let the stirrer run overnight - looks like the official hatch count for now stands at 11. Still nowhere near to as good as what I got in the kriesel, but not too shabby compared to the 1,2,4,5,6 etc..
I've placed the larvae into the "mini kriesel" I set up a few weeks back and slowly added water from the parent's tank. Of course, now I can only find 5 or 6 larvae at a given time.
Looks like tomorrow evening will be the approrpriate time to start offering rotifers. I'm contemplating leaving on a light overhead 24/7. My big concern is that a 1/4 gallon bowl is going to make keeping things stable pretty difficult.
So, experienced larval raisers, do I continue to try in small containers that concentrate larvae and food and allow for a easy-to-observe situation, or do I go dump these in the 10 with some phyto and SS and hope for the best, likely never to see my little larvae again?
Here's to hoping MORE hatch out overnight...doubtful, but ya never know.
MP
I've placed the larvae into the "mini kriesel" I set up a few weeks back and slowly added water from the parent's tank. Of course, now I can only find 5 or 6 larvae at a given time.
Looks like tomorrow evening will be the approrpriate time to start offering rotifers. I'm contemplating leaving on a light overhead 24/7. My big concern is that a 1/4 gallon bowl is going to make keeping things stable pretty difficult.
So, experienced larval raisers, do I continue to try in small containers that concentrate larvae and food and allow for a easy-to-observe situation, or do I go dump these in the 10 with some phyto and SS and hope for the best, likely never to see my little larvae again?
Here's to hoping MORE hatch out overnight...doubtful, but ya never know.
MP
mwp
In Memoriam
So thoughts for another attempt down the line. I think I'm going to try the original "flow through" kriesel SANS air, instead running it with the minijet powerhead. That will acheive the water circulation without any air....thoughts? Anyone know where I can get some really fine mesh for the opening?
I also STILL have to give the MB another shot, as well as try some various other antibiotics that Ed suggested. Watching the water go CLOUDY in this stirrer attempt kinda bolsters Ed's theory that the issue might be fungal/bacterial in nature, killing off the eggs. Sterile water is also in the works, although I still haven't quite figured out the ideal way to go about it (I think I'd have to harvest, then individually pipette the clusters and single eggs into the sterile water to minimize the amount of parental water that gets introduced).
I SOOOO VERY MUCH want to NAIL getting GOOD solid high hatch rates. 100 larvae a per spawn would be WONDERFUL...that'd give me PLENTY to play with and start spreading around extra larvae to other folks who'd like to try raising them. RSMAN, what was your largest successful hatch? Am I missing ANYTHING that you were doing?
I'm still going to put out the feelers for anyone who has a spare microscope running around - I have to buy Birthday Presents for Renee, a new car, and sometime in the near future, a ring
Not to mention my new fishin' buddy Alice the Dog has run up close to $1000k in vet bills so far...I'm watching my account slowly drop every month as it is instead of go up (the *plan* was to save, not spend!) $100 microscopes...tough to justify looking at all that. Still thinking GBGs or some other larvae raised up could fund that purchase too. I really like the idea of a microscope like the one Mr. Ugly is using - something that can take digital stills and video really would bring a lot back to the table for you guys!
Definitely willing to accept donations as well Heck, I should probably give up smoking and put that towards the mandarins! Talk about sacrificing for the hobby...seriously going to consider that though..
Still not very optimistic...Imbuggin - I may just have to take you up on the offer to raise a set of clowns just to get some experience under my belt! Then again, despite not looking that great, it appears the Apogon margaritophorus eggs in the closed-kriesel are still viable afterall - maybe you folks have spare room and cash for some captive bred cardinals?
Totally frustrated, excited, neutrally optimistic etc...Have a great night folks...I'm off to bed!
MP
I also STILL have to give the MB another shot, as well as try some various other antibiotics that Ed suggested. Watching the water go CLOUDY in this stirrer attempt kinda bolsters Ed's theory that the issue might be fungal/bacterial in nature, killing off the eggs. Sterile water is also in the works, although I still haven't quite figured out the ideal way to go about it (I think I'd have to harvest, then individually pipette the clusters and single eggs into the sterile water to minimize the amount of parental water that gets introduced).
I SOOOO VERY MUCH want to NAIL getting GOOD solid high hatch rates. 100 larvae a per spawn would be WONDERFUL...that'd give me PLENTY to play with and start spreading around extra larvae to other folks who'd like to try raising them. RSMAN, what was your largest successful hatch? Am I missing ANYTHING that you were doing?
I'm still going to put out the feelers for anyone who has a spare microscope running around - I have to buy Birthday Presents for Renee, a new car, and sometime in the near future, a ring
Not to mention my new fishin' buddy Alice the Dog has run up close to $1000k in vet bills so far...I'm watching my account slowly drop every month as it is instead of go up (the *plan* was to save, not spend!) $100 microscopes...tough to justify looking at all that. Still thinking GBGs or some other larvae raised up could fund that purchase too. I really like the idea of a microscope like the one Mr. Ugly is using - something that can take digital stills and video really would bring a lot back to the table for you guys!Definitely willing to accept donations as well
Heck, I should probably give up smoking and put that towards the mandarins! Talk about sacrificing for the hobby...seriously going to consider that though..Still not very optimistic...Imbuggin - I may just have to take you up on the offer to raise a set of clowns just to get some experience under my belt! Then again, despite not looking that great, it appears the Apogon margaritophorus eggs in the closed-kriesel are still viable afterall - maybe you folks have spare room and cash for some captive bred cardinals?
Totally frustrated, excited, neutrally optimistic etc...Have a great night folks...I'm off to bed!
MP
My advice:
1. give up smoking. Not so easy to do, but the money you save adds up, plus you save medical bills later in life, and you get to have a later in life.
2. frag some corals, like a toadstool, put them in a small tank with flow and sponge filter, cheap light, and feed excess rotifers. Sell the little trees to your LFS. Easy 100 bucks extra a month.
3. Pat yourself on the back. You are doing an amazing job with all your different breeding logs. You've been very creative and persistent, and we thank you for sharing with us.
1. give up smoking. Not so easy to do, but the money you save adds up, plus you save medical bills later in life, and you get to have a later in life.
2. frag some corals, like a toadstool, put them in a small tank with flow and sponge filter, cheap light, and feed excess rotifers. Sell the little trees to your LFS. Easy 100 bucks extra a month.
3. Pat yourself on the back. You are doing an amazing job with all your different breeding logs. You've been very creative and persistent, and we thank you for sharing with us.
FishGuttz
New member
Congrats on the new record!
rsman thanks for the info.
here's a link for fine mesh--
http://www.wildco.com/vw_prdct_mdl.asp?prdct_mdl_cd=24
rsman thanks for the info.
here's a link for fine mesh--
http://www.wildco.com/vw_prdct_mdl.asp?prdct_mdl_cd=24
Mr. Ugly
New member
Matt,
Quick post for now. My mini kreisel uses the bottom of a reusuable coffee filter for flow through mesh. $3 at the supermarket. This setup has been working well for me. I can do a 15 second water change by just lifting the kreisel, letting the water strain out, and putting it back down into the tank. Much better than the 2 hour airline siphon method. I also get a gallon or two of tank water and set it a slow drip siphon into the kreisel to do a more thorough water change.
I'm thinking you could do a mini power head... like a minijet 404 or whatever it's called. Bleed off some of the output to feed into your kreisel for circulation. Though flow rate could be tricky, and you could end up flushing all the rotifers out of the container.
I think I've seen those QX3 or 5 on ebay cheap. I'll look for some later.
Quick post for now. My mini kreisel uses the bottom of a reusuable coffee filter for flow through mesh. $3 at the supermarket. This setup has been working well for me. I can do a 15 second water change by just lifting the kreisel, letting the water strain out, and putting it back down into the tank. Much better than the 2 hour airline siphon method. I also get a gallon or two of tank water and set it a slow drip siphon into the kreisel to do a more thorough water change.
I'm thinking you could do a mini power head... like a minijet 404 or whatever it's called. Bleed off some of the output to feed into your kreisel for circulation. Though flow rate could be tricky, and you could end up flushing all the rotifers out of the container.
I think I've seen those QX3 or 5 on ebay cheap. I'll look for some later.
mwp
In Memoriam
Fishgutz, thanks for the link to the Nitrex! I don't know...can we really call the "2nd best hatch" a new record? Still not the 25'er we got early on!
Mr. Ugly, I *think* I can sneak in a coffee filter really easily, especially with a $3 price tag - thanks! I was looking at eBay yesterday - all the QX5's are around $80 when you figure in the shipping.
Admittedly, were I not looking at so many OTHER costs this summer I would have plunked for it already! I have two inquiries for fly fishing guides in Iowa...if both of those came through, well, that'd put me anywhere from $700 to $1000+ ahead of where I am currently...gotta follow those through. Another thought, we never got our security deposit back from our landlord when we moved back in March...then again I'm not 100% sure I paid him one in the first place...might as well TRY to get that cash too...would make funding the mandarin project easier
Anyone need a new custom fly rod? I have a half dozen sitting around for sale on my website + another 20 I could build! -> http://www.ramblingreports.com/rodbuilding.asp - I could always throw 'em up on eBay I guess too but until now I haven't been in a big hurry to sell 'em!
Ah, trying to raise money to raise baby mandarins...life is good Kathy, you're totally right on the smoking. The plan was to quit when the first human offspring were imminent 'cause truthfully I otherwise totally enjoy the filthy disgusting life shortening habit (OK, yes, addiction). If you guys start seeing excessivly grumpy posts and mean responses, you know I made the toughest decision!
At least 6 babies floating around in the kriesel this morning,all looking green and swimming! It's tough to count them all as they get swirled around in there, but there's enough to at least make a feeble attempt at raising them.
MP
Mr. Ugly, I *think* I can sneak in a coffee filter really easily, especially with a $3 price tag - thanks! I was looking at eBay yesterday - all the QX5's are around $80 when you figure in the shipping.
Admittedly, were I not looking at so many OTHER costs this summer I would have plunked for it already! I have two inquiries for fly fishing guides in Iowa...if both of those came through, well, that'd put me anywhere from $700 to $1000+ ahead of where I am currently...gotta follow those through. Another thought, we never got our security deposit back from our landlord when we moved back in March...then again I'm not 100% sure I paid him one in the first place...might as well TRY to get that cash too...would make funding the mandarin project easier
Anyone need a new custom fly rod? I have a half dozen sitting around for sale on my website + another 20 I could build! -> http://www.ramblingreports.com/rodbuilding.asp - I could always throw 'em up on eBay I guess too but until now I haven't been in a big hurry to sell 'em!
Ah, trying to raise money to raise baby mandarins...life is good
Kathy, you're totally right on the smoking. The plan was to quit when the first human offspring were imminent 'cause truthfully I otherwise totally enjoy the filthy disgusting life shortening habit (OK, yes, addiction). If you guys start seeing excessivly grumpy posts and mean responses, you know I made the toughest decision!At least 6 babies floating around in the kriesel this morning,all looking green and swimming! It's tough to count them all as they get swirled around in there, but there's enough to at least make a feeble attempt at raising them.
MP
mwp
In Memoriam
Don't ask me how, but for some reason we're down to only 4 larvae in the kriesel that I can find and at least one of them looks "behind" in development which most likely translates to "dead". There aren't any bodies on the bottom and nothing in there to eat them, so who knows where they've gone!
Back to being frustrated!
MP
Back to being frustrated!
MP
mwp
In Memoriam
Ed, I'm actually pretty glad I went to the mini kriesel - when I turned it off they all sank to the bottom - still alive and will swim if you bump the kriesel but otherwise um...
then again, maybe they're all on their deathbeds...in my one "good" attempt that made it to 5 days they did seem to remain swimming even when the flow in the kriesel was turned off....
@#$@#$!!!!!
MP
then again, maybe they're all on their deathbeds...in my one "good" attempt that made it to 5 days they did seem to remain swimming even when the flow in the kriesel was turned off....
@#$@#$!!!!!
MP
mwp
In Memoriam
Well here's my thinking. All the eggs "sank" around "hatch time" and I didn't find but 4 or 5 larvae initially. I started "blowing the eggs" off the bottom and miraculously found the rest of the larvae in short order...in other words now that I think about it those larvae may have been on the bottom and were simply swirled up into view, not "agitated into hatching" as I postulated yesterday.
When I removed the air feed in the mini kriesel, 3 out of the 4 larvae settled to the bottom in short order and sat there on their sides. They *should* still be swimming..so maybe they are DYING? That's how it seems to go down with the vast majority of my Goby Babies as well...they swim, they slowly fade and fall to the bottom where they're still alive and move if agitated but otherwise don't...next day those are the dead ones so that's likely what's going on with these too I suppose...
3 out of the 4 remaining ones show the development that they should for this "age".
I'm stumped guys...really ticked at the mandarin project at the moment! The part that REALLY, really is getting to me is that we DID have a good hatch that made it to 5 days out - granted we had heavy attrition and only 2 larvae made it to the 5 day mark, but that was BEFORE I had SS rotifers to offer. Since that point, I have not been able to replicate the success NOR have I been able to pin down what I did that time that I'm not doing in all the subsequent attempts.
The propeller stirrer doesn't seem to have offered up any big advantage over the kriesels..sure 10 is better than 2 but still nowhere near the 25+ we had several spawns back. SOMETHING has changed in what I'm doing and I can't figure it out!
For the next spawn I'm going to go back and follow my notes to the T and see what I can come up with. The one thought sitting there in the back of my head is that I THINK in all these subsequent spawns I've waited varying amounts of time to harvest the eggs...in some of my earliest attempts I literally flicked on the lights moments after spawning and started scooping stuff out. I don't know what real difference that could have, but maybe the eggs are sitting in the surface film too long and dying right then and there?
Feeling beat up by a pair of paisley fish.
FWIW,
MP
When I removed the air feed in the mini kriesel, 3 out of the 4 larvae settled to the bottom in short order and sat there on their sides. They *should* still be swimming..so maybe they are DYING? That's how it seems to go down with the vast majority of my Goby Babies as well...they swim, they slowly fade and fall to the bottom where they're still alive and move if agitated but otherwise don't...next day those are the dead ones so that's likely what's going on with these too I suppose...
3 out of the 4 remaining ones show the development that they should for this "age".
I'm stumped guys...really ticked at the mandarin project at the moment! The part that REALLY, really is getting to me is that we DID have a good hatch that made it to 5 days out - granted we had heavy attrition and only 2 larvae made it to the 5 day mark, but that was BEFORE I had SS rotifers to offer. Since that point, I have not been able to replicate the success NOR have I been able to pin down what I did that time that I'm not doing in all the subsequent attempts.
The propeller stirrer doesn't seem to have offered up any big advantage over the kriesels..sure 10 is better than 2 but still nowhere near the 25+ we had several spawns back. SOMETHING has changed in what I'm doing and I can't figure it out!
For the next spawn I'm going to go back and follow my notes to the T and see what I can come up with. The one thought sitting there in the back of my head is that I THINK in all these subsequent spawns I've waited varying amounts of time to harvest the eggs...in some of my earliest attempts I literally flicked on the lights moments after spawning and started scooping stuff out. I don't know what real difference that could have, but maybe the eggs are sitting in the surface film too long and dying right then and there?
Feeling beat up by a pair of paisley fish.
FWIW,
MP
FishGuttz
New member
Nicotine is water soluble and as you know highly poisonous. Do you smoke in your fish room? Do you put your nicotine coated fingers in your tank?
If that's not a reason to quit, I don't know what is.
This is a remote possibility. You could probably even do a controlled test on your next.
If that's not a reason to quit, I don't know what is.
This is a remote possibility. You could probably even do a controlled test on your next.
mwp
In Memoriam
Oh how ticked off I would be if that was it I have to say that is at least theoretically possible. That would be plausible but definitely isn't the thing I'm looking at for the moment (not because I don't want to blame being a smoker, but rather because I know a lot of folks who've worked arond a lot of fish for a long time, all smokers, and haven't had any problems). FWIW, when the eggs go into the larval tank with a kriesel or stirrer, that's pretty well sealed off from any smoke contamination. Still, running a bit of carbon in there might not hurt
FWIW,
MP
I have to say that is at least theoretically possible. That would be plausible but definitely isn't the thing I'm looking at for the moment (not because I don't want to blame being a smoker, but rather because I know a lot of folks who've worked arond a lot of fish for a long time, all smokers, and haven't had any problems). FWIW, when the eggs go into the larval tank with a kriesel or stirrer, that's pretty well sealed off from any smoke contamination. Still, running a bit of carbon in there might not hurt FWIW,
MP
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