Greenbanded Goby (Elacatinus multifasciatus, Gobidion etc..) Breeding Log

[aomont]

Sometimes I forget it´s a reef and WAY more challenging

Does the overflow drain to a sump, doesn´t it ? Any chance to use the 300 micron to make a net breeder or something the overflow water goes in ?
My point is that at the overflow box the current may be too much and the sump may give more space for the babies to stay in a slower flow and possibly less bruises. I was thinking on this to post to that other thread on collecting pelagic eggs)

Maybe the trip from tank to sump by the overflow is too much excitment for them though... who knows ? It seems to be choosing the less of two evels and the answer will only show after trials, unfortunately.

Wish luck, as always ! :thumbsup:
Anderson.

 

[mwp]

Anderson, no sump available in my tank, it's a 24 gallon Nano Cube running hoodless with a 150 Watt Finnex Fixture above, and a surface skimmer attached to the integrated filtration's intake - VERY limited options and yes, it's a full blown reef to boot! I'm limited to in tank, hang-on, or "1st chamber" as possible locations for larval "extractors"

At least we know that GBG larvae are positively phototrophic, unlike Apogon leptacanthus and "Rusty Goby" larvae which will be even more difficult to collect in good numbers. Mandarin eggs are easy in one respect, they FLOAT and at least in my main mandarin tank, nothing tries to eat the eggs (can't be sure about that if/when I get pair #2 up and running).

Back to the GBG's, they are PRETTY strong swimmers, and initially they make a mad dash to the surface when the male spits them out. ONE thing I'm thinking of is some sort of "cone" setup that is placed towards the surface above the cave where the GBG's lay their eggs...that way all the larvae would run towards the surface, straight into the "intake cone" of whatever larval extraction device I can come up with. From there it's just a matter of creating flow-through and preventing the larvae from being returned to the tank. That's my working premise so far, but I'm not really sure how to construct it yet!

Matt

Matt

 

[aomont]

Not suggesting you take one now, but do you have any photo of tank for above or showing the filtration scheme ?

Anderson.

 

[mwp]

Anderson, I'll try at some point but for now consider this:

The filtration first overflows (surface skimming) down into downflowing first chamber, chamber 1, which is filled with larger, coarse sponges for mechanical filtration (also produces tons of amphipods). Water exits at the bottom and upwells into 2nd chamber, which is filled (from bottom up) with ceramic ring media, activated carbon, purigen, and live rock rubble (for making frags mostly). This 2nd middle chamber flows into Chamber #3 by spilling over...at the bottom of chamber 3 is a small powerhead which returns the water to the tank, along with the tank's heater.

----

Update on the larvae - we still have THREE GBG larvae who are all just about 17 days old at this point. This morning the SS Rotifers were added in following enrichment, along with 10 basters of the "mixed phytoplankton" (still 40/40/20). 1 Larvae has developed the gas bubble in the abdomen and is struggling to stay off the surface or at least stay upright. A 2nd larvae is feeding close to the surface. The last larvae (also the largest) is now feeding pretty close to the BOTTOM of the tank, maybe 1/2 to 1" above the bottom.

FWIW,

Matt

 

[mwp]

17.5 Days and I have 1 confirmed GBG larvae remaining. I found one body this evening, and earlier on I counted 2 healthy larvae. Now I can only find the one and he's freakin' out, ramming himself into the surface of the water and overall just not looking all that good. None the less I added in 10 basters of the "40/40/20" phytoplankton mix and have some L-Strain+Copes set up for enrichment.

I'll have to reread this log at some point soon, as it SEEMS like I had the same basic experience trying to raise these this 2nd time around. Started with a big hatch, most made it to a week or so, then massive die off, then slowly the remaining ones disappeared a couple at a time.

If that really ends up being the case, what are your thoughts?

Matt

 

[MMoe]

Hi Matt, I don't know. I've seen that kind of response to captive rearing conditions in some larvae at various times in the past. Obviously, somethings wrong. The obvious possiblilities are bacterial and/fungal problems, nutritional inadequacies, and water quality problems. It could be any of these. but I would hang my hat first on nutrition. You might try not enriching the rotifers and copes. Possibibly too much oil in the food..... ? This will sometimes cause a liver degeneration that they can't come back from. Then pay more attention to water quality, siphon the bottom more frequently, change water more often... Also use considerable light over the tank. I found, with the dottybacks, that what might be considered too much light, made a real positive difference in the vitality of the larval culture. Also try to eliminate all contact with biological filtration in the water. Try not to use water initially that has been under biological filtration (unless you sterilize it with chlorine first) at least for the first 10 to 12 days. Good Luck,

Martin

 

[ediaz]

I use a lot of light with them, like I mentioned to you earlier.

I use the selco, but I rinse the rotifer before I feed them and enrich them for 12-16 hours before,

I change 2 gallons in a ten gallon tank every day from day 4 on.

I siphon the tank from day 13 and on since before then I will suck a few larvae doing it.

Ed

 

[mwp]

Those are some good points for the next batch! Thanks guys!

Matt

 

[Kathy55g]

Thanks Ed,
Unfortunately, we were not in on the conversation earlier. How much light do you use? More than with clownfish? If so, why is it different?
Kathy

 

[ediaz]

If i raise them in 10/20 gal. tank, I use a 18" to 24" lamp very close to the surface, If I use a black tub I use a 150 watts halogen lamp.

Why? i don't know, if the light is not strong enough they just stay at the bottom and waste away, if the light is strong it keeps them at the surface eating right where the food is. I don't suddenly turn lights off either.

Ed

 

[Luis A M]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8127066#post8127066 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mwp
I'll have to reread this log at some point soon, as it SEEMS like I had the same basic experience trying to raise these this 2nd time around. Started with a big hatch, most made it to a week or so, then massive die off, then slowly the remaining ones disappeared a couple at a time.

If that really ends up being the case, what are your thoughts?

Matt

Matt,I don´t mean to sound pessimistic,but that is the typical outcome of most larval rearing attempts
The ugly fact remains that after so many years and efforts,we hobbyists are still unable to raise any larva other than clowns.
We can only occasionally succeed,and then in very small numbers.
There is one basic question we must answer:
IS IT THE FOOD,OR IS IT THE ENVIRONMENT?
I still could not find out and had periodically switched from one to the other.
And even if never mentioned,LUCK has a lot to do here.When one tries something many times,sometimes a fortuitous combination of factors,many beyond our understanding,could make a particular run,the lucky one.Only that we perhaps won´t be able to repeat it!.
Our best bet is to work together here,posting and sharing experiences.This is a most powerful searching machine,never had before.And in many aspects more useful and faster than academic research!

 

[mwp]

Well, just prior to 18 days, when I check this AM, the last of our GBG larvae had kicked the bucket. Here's what I CAN say - 18 DAYS - I must entirely agree with Luis that it's either environment or diet. The fact that the last few larger ones developed air bubbles in their abdomens must be a clue towards something.

Ed, I've got the light down - 18" 15 watt resting right on top of the tank. At night I simply lift it up so it's at least 18" or so overhead...I left it on 24/7 and each morning put it back on the top of the tank.

I'm not discouraged on the GBG's yet; this most recent time around they went for basically 5 days without my personal care and that seems to be the time when most died off (and weren't receiving enriched foods).

I'm probably going to try another batch not from next Monday's hatch but probably the one following that (hopefully it'll be a Tuesday hatch either this batch or the next one). I still have baby mandarins in the tank, so I'm leaning way from "environment" and last night I managed to capture 10 peppermint shrimp larvae and add those as well...they're still around, so without even water testing I can comfortably say the WATER is OK

18 days is my personal record to beat...far better when it was 4, 5 or 6!

Matt

 

[ediaz]

18 days not bad,

Try enriching for more than ten hours or what i call "super enrichment", leave the rots for 12 hours in the selco, rinse and leave another 12 hours with selco again, rinse and feed the larvae,

How do you remove water for changes?

The light should not be on 24/7, at nite raise the lamp and turn a nite light on( you can get those at Jewel Osco with the preffered card;-) ) then turn the main lite off, that will avoid the shock. if you turn the light off suddenly they freak out, try it, and with dottybacks they just die so with the gobies I am not taking any chances. in the morning turn the main lite on, the nite lite off and then place the main lite on the tank.


I am building a Dottyback assembly line, basically 20 10 gallon tanks with different drains and water imputs(system and new) to deal with the antibiotics, O3 and UV and a ballast dimer system for lite transition from day to nite. At hatcheries dottybacks and gobies are raised under sunlight and they don't experience such problems.

I tried the outdoor approach, in the summer it boils in the winter it freezes, got to love MI.

Ed

 

[mwp]

Ed, 1 question, are you doing Greenwater for Gobies, or only feeding enriched rotifers and "that's that" so to speak? My main reason for 24/7 lighting at some level was to reduce pH shock/O2 depletion during the night and also to allow the larvae to feed 24/7 - it seemed to help early on. Perhaps the simple aeration of the tank is enough to counteract the pH/O2 issues.

Matt

 

[ediaz]

I add a liter of whatever is ripe in the morning, along with the enriched rots at 9am and 6pm.

Ph what is that? I don't own a Ph test or any other, I never test my water not even when at C-quest, ammonia will always raise, change water, nitrates will acumulate, change more water.

A simple airstone with a gentle flow or a open line with a slow bubble count is enough to keep them well.

larvae needs to rest thats my interest in finding a way of having them in dark avoiding shock.

Ed

 

[mwp]

9-26-06, 11:35 AM, I've just noticed a GBG hatch...looks like it's still in progress. This batch is just gonna have to sit back and be FOOD as I'm tied up with leptacanthus larvae! I really need that 2nd 10 gallon tank - someone tell me how to convince Renee, please!

Matt

 

[Kathy55g]

You may have to wait until you can show her the money. Hey, it worked for me! But then, I have an exceptionally wonderful spouse!

 

[mwp]

JUMPIN UP AND DOWN FOR JOY!

11-1-06, 10:00 AM, we have a GBG HATCH!

I have an empty tank, and a clownfish larval tank full of SS Rotifers Looks like one tank is getting a quick cleaning and another is getting a water change - TIME TO TRY GBG's AGAIN!!!!

Matt

 

[mwp]

Alrighty! Starting off with an empty 10 gallon, approximately 1.5 gallons of brood tank water, and now slowly siphoning in water from the larval clownfish tank through a 120 micron sieve (taking out the brine shrimp, leaving the phyto and SS rotifers to go through).

Of course I'll be adding phyto later today. Ed, anyone who's done these, what's the absolute best protocol. I want to beat 18 days this time around...looking to make it to meta with at least 20-30 fish.

Matt

 

[mwp]

1 Aside Note - I literally haven't noticed any GBG hatches SINCE the last one I recorded. I'd checked a few times during October for eggs, but I think they may have moved where they're spawning, even only an inch, out of view. God bless the bangaiis - they're my "hatch alarm"...tipped me off to a Peppermint Shrimp hatch last night too, not to mention the hermit crab hatch last week...

Matt