Grounding probes: Hazard or helpful?

Edward Smith

Edward Smith

Active member
Yes, I do have all equipment connected to GFI's :lol:


Grounding probes:

Good to catch stray voltage and trip the GFI if necessary

Bad since it completes the electrical circuit.

Thoughts?
 
my understanding was that they caught even very very small stray voltage and safely directed it to ground keeping animals and owner safe.

i might be wrong though
steve
 
I've heard its worse for the fish as well due to completing the circuit, but also that stray voltage causes HLLE, so........
 
good grief... can we leave the +1 stuff at digg...

There are pros and cons with regard to ground probes. If you use the probe with a GFCI, then they GFCI will trip when current flows to the probe. Safe for the livestock and the owner. Induced current could still flow to the probe, but the amount is certainly very very small and not likely a problem.

Furthermore, just because current flows through a fish tank, does not mean that it flows through the fish at the same level. Current flows through a bird sitting on a wire, but at such a low level that it does not notice, even when the voltage and current in the wire are massive.
 
A stray voltage is just a potential. Potentials are nothing if they just remain that. Like a battery. It is the ability to do something but nothing actually gets done. Technically "no work is done" as no current flows.

Now add a ground probe You will now have current flow. Work will be done. Something will happen. Generally the fish will be tortured subtly. Worst case they will be poisoned as electrolysis will occur which puts various metal ions into the electrolyte,(tank water).

I would instead spend my $$ on something my tank's citizens will actually benefit from.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13264709#post13264709 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kcress

Now add a ground probe You will now have current flow. Work will be done. [/b]
Click to expand...
If you are using GFCIs, then any current flow that results from leaking equipment will trip the GFCI and STOP the current flow. So again, the only current that can flow in a GFCI/probe protected tank is induced current. Induced current is not likely something to worry about considering the modes of induction in a fish tank vs its volume and the resistance of the fish and other livestock.
 
I heard that you have to have grounding probes in a shark and ray tank becuase they can sense such low voltage. What would one do in that case???
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13264807#post13264807 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by cjg333
I heard that you have to have grounding probes in a shark and ray tank becuase they can sense such low voltage. What would one do in that case???
Click to expand...

I am not sure I understand the question.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13264709#post13264709 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kcress
A stray voltage is just a potential. Potentials are nothing if they just remain that. Like a battery. It is the ability to do something but nothing actually gets done. Technically "no work is done" as no current flows.

Now add a ground probe You will now have current flow. Work will be done. Something will happen. Generally the fish will be tortured subtly. Worst case they will be poisoned as electrolysis will occur which puts various metal ions into the electrolyte,(tank water).

I would instead spend my $$ on something my tank's citizens will actually benefit from.
Click to expand...
A "hot" fish tank is an accident waiting to happen, as stray voltages may not be detected, and yes PEOPLE DO DIE FROM ELECTROCUTION ! you are assuming the owner of the fish tank will not be bare footed and inserting his hand in the water, or he is not holding with one hand a grounded light fixture and the other in the water, but many times thats the case :D
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13265094#post13265094 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Young Frankenstein
PEOPLE DO DIE FROM ELECTROCUTION !
Click to expand...

Anybody who is electrocuted dies... for the world ELECTROCUTION means DEATH BY ELECTRICITY. You can't get electrocuted a live anymore than you can be executed and live. :)


Also, the ground probe used without GFCI protection actually introduces shock/electrocution hazards not present WITHOUT the probe. A ground probe should never be used on a system that is not fully GFCI protected.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13265336#post13265336 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BeanAnimal
Anybody who is electrocuted dies... for the world ELECTROCUTION means DEATH BY ELECTRICITY. You can't get electrocuted a live anymore than you can be executed and live. :)


Also, the ground probe used without GFCI protection actually introduces shock/electrocution hazards not present WITHOUT the probe. A ground probe should never be used on a system that is not fully GFCI protected.
Click to expand...
Ok lets not play with words. You got the point I was making. A ground probe should never be used on a system that is not fully GFCI protected. I am 50-50 on that since a ground probe will probably trip the circuit breaker due to over current in some cases. Can you elaborate on what your reasons are for not using a ground probe without a GFI ?
 
Induction occurs all around us. In fact florescent tubes cause it and so do all the pumps in your tank. Putting a ground probe in your tank GFCI protected or not gives a low resistance path for the current to travel, but if you would like that path could be your body. A current less than 5mA through your heart can cause fibrillation.

So is it needed? Not at all. Is inducted voltange in your tank dangerous? Well that depends on if your body happens to be at a different potential than the induced voltage. Chances are that if your standing on carpet with shoes on you probibly wouldn't even know if your tank was at a full 120V potential difference from ground.
 
Here we go again.

This topic has been beaten into the ground ( pun intended ). I wish people could use the search function more often.

I will summarize all of the other threads below ( and just to be blatant, I AM an Electrical Engineer ):

1 - IF you have a tank without GFCI on everything....... You are crazy.... Period ( we can debate lighting, but everything else needs to be protected )

2 - IF you have a GFCI AND a ground probe, then there is no harm that can come to your livestock ( the GFCI will/should trip before any current can flow through your animals ).

3 - If you choose to have a tank with a GFCI and NO GROUND PROBE, you are asking that someday, you will volunteer your body as the return path WHEN the fault eventually occurs..... THEN the GFCI will trip.

4 - If you trust your life to a $10 GFCI from HD or LOWES, then you are OK with #3 above.

Stu
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13265815#post13265815 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hpglow
Induction occurs all around us. In fact florescent tubes cause it and so do all the pumps in your tank. Putting a ground probe in your tank GFCI protected or not gives a low resistance path for the current to travel, but if you would like that path could be your body. A current less than 5mA through your heart can cause fibrillation.

So is it needed? Not at all. Is inducted voltange in your tank dangerous? Well that depends on if your body happens to be at a different potential than the induced voltage. Chances are that if your standing on carpet with shoes on you probibly wouldn't even know if your tank was at a full 120V potential difference from ground.
Click to expand...
Chances are that if your standing on carpet with shoes on you probably wouldn't even know if your tank was at a full 120V potential difference from ground. exactly my point ! till you touch with the other hand or a foot a ground :D then you do notice the potential difference :D after 30 years in the electrical field I can say with confidence the ground probe is needed for your safety :D
 
any time anybody tries to debate the ground probe issue again im calling on the 4 of you! im sure you all have read the endless debates over the subject. ya'll have put it so plain and concise my head is spinning! very well done, and kudos to you my friends! :D
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13265447#post13265447 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Young Frankenstein
Ok lets not play with words.
Click to expand...

We are not playing words. ELECTROCUTION has only one meaning. I simply pointed it out so that other people are better informed. Your not the first person to [icorrectly] use ELECTROCUTION to reference the act of being shocked.

A ground probe should never be used on a system that is not fully GFCI protected. I am 50-50 on that since a ground probe will probably trip the circuit breaker.
Click to expand...
It is MORE likely that the circuit breaker WILL NOT trip in MOST cases.

Furthermore, a circuit breaker is NOT designed to protect YOU. It is designed to protect the CIRCUIT.

As for the reasons for not using a probe WITHOUT a GFCI. Simple. There are MANY fault modes where YOU can get electrocuted even though the probe provides a good path to ground. There are common scenarios where the probe creates a circuit where you would otherwise not be in danger of shock or electrocution. Think about it and you can come up with many...

...Here is a start: Fault in a NON GFCI PROTECTED light that energizes a reflector. You lean into the GROUNDED fish tank and your elbow (back of the neck, whatever) comes into contact with the reflector. Your dead. If you had a GFCI safe. If you had NO ground probe, you would be safe.

Also, as pointed out above, there is a great chance that the current through the probe IS NOT enough to trip the overcurrent device (circuit breaker).
 
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