Group Buy

My office is about 5 minutes from the UPS airport terminal, 1 minute from FX's but I dont know if they do package pick up from there. I dont mind if you want to pick them up and drop them off for people to come by to pick up theirs anytime before 5. Just an option for consideration...

Jeff, thanks for taking this on. It's a bit of a hastle. Runner had a great idea to set up an excel sheet on our last order. You might consider the same.
 
i would like to get in on this. i want a 4-5" (or larger) hippo tang.
just let meknow when, and i'll be ready
 
March 3rd would work for me as a morning pick-up. I'll be out of town on the 25th as well...

Donny, if you can't make the pick-up date, I could hold your trigger for you, but if you don't mind, I think he'd be housed separately from the goby :)

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6786376#post6786376 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Runner
I think if I got a bigger tank, my wife would smash it to little bits...
Ouch!

Have you ever heard this song? ;) (just teasing you Scott!)

http://www.twin-music.com/lyrics_file/paisley/part/i2.html
 
Looks like a Friday, March 3rd, delivery date is our best bet - I haven't seen any objections. In the next day or two, I'll make up a draft spreadsheet of all the requests posted here so far, and then I'll post it. Just to make sure there's no confusion over orders or that anyone has had second thoughts, I'll ask that everyone on the order check the spreadsheet and PM me a confirmation. In your PMs, you can also tell me what you'd like me to do if your exact size or species isn't available when I call it in - for example, some people might have a second choice. If you already posted what you want but didn't post the size or exactly what species you want, please go ahead now and I'll make sure it gets folded into the first draft of the spreadsheet.

I'd propose we handle the box and shipping charges on a pro-rated basis - each person's share of these charges would be proportional to their fraction of the total cost of the livestock. I'd also ask that people bring cash or checks to cover their orders when they come to pick up. There's too many people involved for me to track amounts outstanding.

Squeak - it might make sense for me to take you up on your offer to hold the arrivals at your office if you don't mind having folks coming by there. Especially if someone is going to be there anyway - it would save me from having to wait at the house for folks to come by before I head in to work. Hopefully no one would wait until 5pm to come get their orders - couldn't be healthy for the livestock. If we do this, I guess you'd need to hold the $$ people bring when they come for their orders and then I could get it from you later.

No need for anyone to thank me - I've been wanting to draw down my MDL store credit for a couple months. Sometimes I'll see something in an LFS or another online store that I'd really like to get, but I tell myself I should wait until I've spent down my credit at MDL, just because I didn't want to wind up having credit there forever.

Oh - one last thing to note: There's a rule you might not be aware of with MDL's stay-alive guarantee. If you lose a specimen and (after checking your water sample) MDL credits you for it, if you then use the credit to buy another specimen of the same species then there is no guarantee on it. For example, in my case, if I were to use my credit to order another Goldflake Angel, I would not be protected by the stay-alive guarantee. Just wanted to make sure everyone knew about that because I didn't when I lost the Goldflake - it was buried in the small print. Also, the guarantee only applies to the livestock cost - no credit for the shipping costs.

Jeff (vol_reefer)
 
Thanks, Jeff. As for my two fish, I just want the small sizes. I think the snails only come in one size. If they don't have something I want then just drop that item. No need to go to the bigger sizes.

If somebody is coming more towards the center or west side of Knoxville after they pick up from Don, I would like them to get my order. It would be a somewhat long drive from Farragut down to Maryville then up to Powell and back just to get back to work.
 
Yes, but. Gotta love yes-but's right?

I've got a few more colonies coming in tomorrow (mean greens and safecrackers! yeehaw!) and will be fragging this weekend some more. Not sure what I'm going to all come up with, but shoot me another PM and I'll respond to it in the next couple of days. I cleaned out my box...
 
Clarki Clown 12+3med 1 15
Green Chromis 3 6 18 (only if 1ââ"šÂ¬Ã‚ or bigger)
Blue Tang 33+7med 1 40
Powder Blue Tang 44+11med 1 55
Total $128
(something to keep them from carpet surfing---priceless)

Still debating on snails.
 
Don, you may want to be careful putting a blue and a powder blue in the same tank. They're very similarly colored and shaped, meaning there could be some aggression between the two, and tangs don't fight fair.
 
Thanks Fred, I'm counting on tank size, the blue being actually yellowish until more mature, and other factors.
 
Because nothing ever gets done in this hobby if you don't stretch and test "conventional wisdom" at times.
 
This is not meant towards Don, but Scott with an attitude like that: I guess I am less cavalier about stretching and testing things when it comes to the life of animals. But then...we already knew that didn't we.

I am not directing this toward anyone but I do think that we could all be a bit more considerate of the responsibility we have as pet owners, even if it is "just a shrimp" or "just a fish".

I'm not trying to be mean here and not trying to argue, but that's not testing the limits of anything except whether two animals will kill themselves.
 
Mel, I couldn't agree more.

Pushing the limits of something like that I don't feel is really testing anything that's controversial. There may be exceptions where they will get along, but 9 times out of 10 one or the other will end up dead (or one dead, the other hurt and succumbing to its injuries later). Doesn't seem worth the risk to me, especially when there's other, similar choices that have been proven to work well together.

Let's be frank: marine fish are a limited resource that we've been managing poorly. Submitting them to situations where there's a good liklihood you're going to lose one or both isn't a way to push the envelope, it's giving in to your wants and desires without thinking about the greater impact.

But really, isn't that what people do?

Have a good read, and don't be surprised if sometime in the next few years we've decimated the wild supplies to the point where they actually pass something like this:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-12/eb/Casecoralbill.pdf
 
I've been thinking about putting a small maroon clown with my big maroon clown to get them to pair up. Two times out of three the little clown will die instead of pairing up. Regretable, but sometimes worth the risk for the end effect. I don't waste fish lives (my only two marine deaths have escaped the tank), but I have been known to do things that defy "conventional wisdom" and pull it off 90% of the time. My attitude towards "conventional wisdom" in the reef hobby dates back to my intro into saltwater where I was dubbed an idiot because I didn't want to put a sand bed in my tank. Or where I was insane because I didn't have a skimmer for my first two years.

In Don's case, he has a large tank and they *may* fight. If they are put together when juvenilles, though, circumstances can change things. My maroon was with a Clarkii from the time they were babies. I would have never tried that, but the guy I got my rock and those two from from did. And they went from his 46G to my 30G without any fighting. It is largely a matter of how you handle things. In the cichlid world you can get notoriously aggressive fish to live together by providing a large tank and dividing the tank right and introducing such fish together. Or rearranging the rockwork to get a new fish settled in with the old. All I am is suggesting is that I think Don can handle something a little more difficult in his large tank and work it out right. He has a gigantic damsel against all "conventional wisdom." I will continue to have a knee-jerk reaction against knee-jerk reactions to the contrary. Yes, he should know the potential difficulties, but no, he shouldn't be stopped by them. If you want to carry concern for the lives of these animals to the extreme then give up your tank for the good of the reef.

Now if he tried to put in a bunch of gobies with a lionfish, we may have to have a talk...
 
I've been thinking about putting a small maroon clown with my big maroon clown to get them to pair up. Two times out of three the little clown will die instead of pairing up. Regretable, but sometimes worth the risk for the end effect.

This is actually the standard method used for pairing maroons. It's how I paired mine, and I'm reasonably sure it's how Matt paired his. Not to mention Joyce Wilkerson and just about every breeder that I've met who has bred maroons. Trick is to put them in clear container or something first to judge any potential problems. I floated my small male in a little Kritter Keeper for a week before adding him to the tank.

My attitude towards "conventional wisdom" in the reef hobby dates back to my intro into saltwater where I was dubbed an idiot because I didn't want to put a sand bed in my tank. Or where I was insane because I didn't have a skimmer for my first two years.

Personally, I would have never thought/said either of these, as it's perfectly fine to run a tank without a sand bed and without a skimmer. Lumping my thoughts in with these people that would think/say something of the sort isn't really fair and I think may give people a false sense that somehow I agree with them and the advice I offer can be discarded as typical conventional rhetoric, when nothing could be further from the truth. I run my tanks with live rock, a sand bed and a skimmer as my only means of filtration and don't do water changes. I also feed my fish, corals, inverts and anemones multiple times daily. Some people would say I'm an idiot for doing that. They're more than welcome to stop by and check out my fish and corals if they'd like. Since I frag frequently and have breeding cleaner shrimp, Banggai cardinal and good overall coral growth, I would argue it's working just fine. Is it conventional? Not really. I have nothing against doing things in an unconventional manner, but there are certain times when it's no so much against conventional norms as it is just a plainly bad idea.

In the cichlid world you can get notoriously aggressive fish to live together by providing a large tank and dividing the tank right and introducing such fish together. Or rearranging the rockwork to get a new fish settled in with the old. All I am is suggesting is that I think Don can handle something a little more difficult in his large tank and work it out right. He has a gigantic damsel against all "conventional wisdom."

Again, this is pretty standard. I've never espoused anything differently on any forum I've ever been a member of or moderated. That said, attempting things like this that tend to be more manageable by experts to people who may or may not have experience with these types of fish is also something I'd never recommend. I know Don has a large tank, but that's not always the way it goes. In most instances, conventional wisdom is the way it is because in the majority of cases, it's true and proven. The rarities that happen to come along don't justify (in my mind) attempting something that the majority of the time will end poorly. Again, this is a case of something you "want" to do, even though you know odds are it won't work. Take that FWIW.

If you want to carry concern for the lives of these animals to the extreme then give up your tank for the good of the reef.

If I felt that me doing this would cause everyone else to do it, gladly. As it is, I propagate a lot of coral and will continue to do so. I don't consider my aquarium a trivial piece of furniture. If I can make any sort of impact by propagating, promoting and selling corals that are not straight from the wild, then I feel it's worth it. I do this (and have no moral qualms with it) simply because I know that other people out there will continue to purchase corals and fish from the wild regardless of whether I do this or not. My ultimate goal is to reach that point (which is nearing quickly) where a majority of the corals I can distribute are tank-raised, at which point I will be positively giving to the hobby.

Let's be clear: I don't agree with the attitude taken towards this in general (by this, I mean most of the hobby as a whole really), and will try and help in any situation I feel I can contribute to. I don't and won't think less of anyone here because they're trying something they want to do. That doesn't mean I agree with it, just that I'm not going to turn my nose up at anyone for something like this.

If Don decides to do it, and it works out, terrific! If not, well, I told you so! :p
 
This thread has deviated from its original purpose, but since it has...

Scott, if you want help pairing your maroons, I'd be glad to offer assistance. I've paired up several maroons now using my own method and no deaths or aggression, and I'd be happy to share it with you (not a secret or anything, just not the place for it). I think the clear box idea, although popular, defeats the purpose of introducing a small fish--you do NOT want the newcomer to feel comfortable when "he" is first introduced...

I'm not sure Don is really taking a huge risk adding two smallish tangs to a tank that big. My three tangs in the 125 scuffled a little when first introduced, but they eventually established their social order. Naso -- sailfin -- hippo, and now they don't fight (and yes, before the tang police come after me, bigger accommodations for these fish are in the works). I'm sure his powder blue would be king, but I've heard lots of bad things about Atlantic Blues and survival records (even worse than PBTs whose record isn't stellar either). Two tangs are probably ok, but if it were my tank, I might choose fish with a better survival record. Just trying to help, as I do agree that we should strive to be conscientious aquarists.
 
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