Thales
Active member
If I am getting what you are saying, I think it is more complicated than that. For instance, that part of the discussion is about higher nutrients in general, not just phosphate. From the article:
Guess the Phosphate level
- Thread starter Thales
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If I am getting what you are saying, I think it is more complicated than that. For instance, that part of the discussion is about higher nutrients in general, not just phosphate. From the article:
DiscusHeckel
Acropora Gardener
I dose chelated iron (Kent marine) every week to boost the growth of my chaeto algae in my sump. If I do not dose it for a prolonged period of time, the algae looks slightly yellow and growth slows down a bit.
Randy Holmes-Farley does "not recommend significant iron additions for reef tanks with no macroalgae" (ref: http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2002/10/chemistry)
I'm very interested me too in the combination nutrients increase/microelements availability.
As I've said some page ago, raising nutrients in my tank from zero, I've experienced a severe health worsening with diffuse STN and growth stop. I haven't find a clear explanation. Now, after 2 months, NO3 are 1,5, PO4 0,05 and corals are still the same, dark, unhealthy, w/o growth.
The curious thing is that when I've begun feeding, I simultaneosly performed large consecutive WC with a "rich" salt (royal nature; most fo You use IO, which is known to be poorer). Maybe micronutrients in the new water fueled some microorganism which harmed corals.
Now I've decided to stop usual 10% WC to see if something changes, because 2 months without improvements is unexplained to me.
Luca
As I've said some page ago, raising nutrients in my tank from zero, I've experienced a severe health worsening with diffuse STN and growth stop. I haven't find a clear explanation. Now, after 2 months, NO3 are 1,5, PO4 0,05 and corals are still the same, dark, unhealthy, w/o growth.
The curious thing is that when I've begun feeding, I simultaneosly performed large consecutive WC with a "rich" salt (royal nature; most fo You use IO, which is known to be poorer). Maybe micronutrients in the new water fueled some microorganism which harmed corals.
Now I've decided to stop usual 10% WC to see if something changes, because 2 months without improvements is unexplained to me.
Luca
Thales
Active member
You betcha and no, I don't seem much difference either way.
Thales
Active member
There prolly isn't a clear explanation. I would suspect is has something to do with the environmental change. Generally, it seems that a change in stability leads to the kind of thing you are seeing, presumably, do to the coral getting used to the new situation.
Can you describe what you mean by 'unhealthy'?
That seems like a good idea to me as multiple changes seems to cause problems.
Thats a very interesting article.
I have been in the hobby since 2000. I took down all my tanks around 2012 because I was moving to a new house. Those old tanks I had in place were very simple (with one exception). I kept mostly sps and rarely had issues. What was interesting was I never tested anything other than salinity (mainly because I would be lazy about top-off water). I did have a calcium reactor and the only true maintenance I ever did was changing out the tank for the reactor. I had one tank (sps dominated) for 6 years that I would change water on maybe 3 times a year. I had good growth (colors were ok) and the only time I had algae was from going long periods of time without a water change. If I saw hair algae pop up I would then do a water change. Again this was rarely done.
Fast forward to my new tank. I am now becoming a testing freak. Why? I started to over think things and made a mistake. I set this tank up over a year ago and neglected it like I do with most tanks. Around 6 months ago I got ticked off because I was having a major outbreak of hair algae. I read and read online and came to the conclusion that my issue was high phosphates. I verified this with a hanna test kit. Phosphate levels were between 0.08 and 0.13. Once I confirmed that I went out and got a Phosphate reactor and bought BRS high capacity GFO. Within a few weeks my hanna meter was reading 0. Hair algae didn't budge. I kept it going for another month and still no movement on the hair algae. I thought that was weird. A few weeks later I stumbled on a post here about bryopsis and I realized this is exactly what I had. I truthfully thought that all hair algae would look this way if allowed to grow to much. In my last tanks I never had any major issues with hair algae so I didn't know what it looked like when out of control.
Around 7 weeks ago I started the Kent Tech M treatment and literally 2 days later the bryopsis was dying. After 5 days it was gone. I kept my levels high for 6 weeks and I am now slowly changing out the water to get my Mg levels back to 1300.
I stopped GFO 2 weeks ago. I am dosing Redsea's Nopox and the interesting thing about there literature is it suggest elevated Nitrates and Phosphates for better coral growth. So right now I am aiming for Nitrates at 1-2 and Phosphates at 0.08-0.1. Once I get it all dialed in I intend to set it and stop my constant testing. If things look bad to my eyes I plan to test and adjust. That's it. And for those wondering, yes I plan to do water changes unlike my last tank. I have a easier system now so they are no longer a huge pain to do. However, the amount will be something like 5% a week or 10% every two weeks.
I have been in the hobby since 2000. I took down all my tanks around 2012 because I was moving to a new house. Those old tanks I had in place were very simple (with one exception). I kept mostly sps and rarely had issues. What was interesting was I never tested anything other than salinity (mainly because I would be lazy about top-off water). I did have a calcium reactor and the only true maintenance I ever did was changing out the tank for the reactor. I had one tank (sps dominated) for 6 years that I would change water on maybe 3 times a year. I had good growth (colors were ok) and the only time I had algae was from going long periods of time without a water change. If I saw hair algae pop up I would then do a water change. Again this was rarely done.
Fast forward to my new tank. I am now becoming a testing freak. Why? I started to over think things and made a mistake. I set this tank up over a year ago and neglected it like I do with most tanks. Around 6 months ago I got ticked off because I was having a major outbreak of hair algae. I read and read online and came to the conclusion that my issue was high phosphates. I verified this with a hanna test kit. Phosphate levels were between 0.08 and 0.13. Once I confirmed that I went out and got a Phosphate reactor and bought BRS high capacity GFO. Within a few weeks my hanna meter was reading 0. Hair algae didn't budge. I kept it going for another month and still no movement on the hair algae. I thought that was weird. A few weeks later I stumbled on a post here about bryopsis and I realized this is exactly what I had. I truthfully thought that all hair algae would look this way if allowed to grow to much. In my last tanks I never had any major issues with hair algae so I didn't know what it looked like when out of control.
Around 7 weeks ago I started the Kent Tech M treatment and literally 2 days later the bryopsis was dying. After 5 days it was gone. I kept my levels high for 6 weeks and I am now slowly changing out the water to get my Mg levels back to 1300.
I stopped GFO 2 weeks ago. I am dosing Redsea's Nopox and the interesting thing about there literature is it suggest elevated Nitrates and Phosphates for better coral growth. So right now I am aiming for Nitrates at 1-2 and Phosphates at 0.08-0.1. Once I get it all dialed in I intend to set it and stop my constant testing. If things look bad to my eyes I plan to test and adjust. That's it. And for those wondering, yes I plan to do water changes unlike my last tank. I have a easier system now so they are no longer a huge pain to do. However, the amount will be something like 5% a week or 10% every two weeks.
BTW I know this is a Reef forum but I wanted to chime in once more. I got into freshwater planted tanks years ago. I had one going for 5 years that I never once changed the water on. All I did was top it off with RODI and dose some fertilizer occasionally. I did have green water issues that were fixed with UV and had major growth in plants that became a pain to deal with. However the tank always looked awesome and the fish in it were always happy. I know it is not the same, but people would come over and always ask me how I kept my planted tank so nice and I always told them I let the plants do my maintenance.
Thales, in the last 3 months I'm experiencing STN at base and some spots on tips of stylo. All pocillopora and seriatopora have dead (progressive STN/RTN). All acros are stopped; they are very dark, some are nearly black. No one new tip in the last 3 months. Some have good polyp expansion at night, some do not. In general polyp expansion is reduced. LPS do fine.
Montipora foliosa have a very thin opaque tissue that disappear in microscopical spot on all surface, leaving very small white spots that become then brown. One acro has STN also on tips, that have become covered with brown algae.
3 months in the same situation w/o improvements seems to me a bit too long to be an adaptation issue, but I can't find any other explanation.
Except for the fact that when all has begun, I changed skimmer. I can't believe it could be that (thinking to a toxic release from some glue), but I put in back the previous bubble king supermarine 200 to exclude also this unlikely cause.
Montipora foliosa have a very thin opaque tissue that disappear in microscopical spot on all surface, leaving very small white spots that become then brown. One acro has STN also on tips, that have become covered with brown algae.
3 months in the same situation w/o improvements seems to me a bit too long to be an adaptation issue, but I can't find any other explanation.
Except for the fact that when all has begun, I changed skimmer. I can't believe it could be that (thinking to a toxic release from some glue), but I put in back the previous bubble king supermarine 200 to exclude also this unlikely cause.
I'm always more convinced about the theory linking pathogens growth to micronutrients presence.
I'm convinced that my personal situation with many corals dying have been caused by feeding much more in addition to large and consecutive water changes.
I find support to this from the practical observation that in the beginning, just after increasing feeding, caulerpa exploded, even when NO3 and PO4 were still zero. Now, after 3 months without water changes, but NO3 1ppm and PO4 0,04ppm, caulerpa can't grow anymore. Curious, isn't it?
I'm convinced that my personal situation with many corals dying have been caused by feeding much more in addition to large and consecutive water changes.
I find support to this from the practical observation that in the beginning, just after increasing feeding, caulerpa exploded, even when NO3 and PO4 were still zero. Now, after 3 months without water changes, but NO3 1ppm and PO4 0,04ppm, caulerpa can't grow anymore. Curious, isn't it?
And this freshly new article say just the opposite:
http://ac.els-cdn.com/S187734351300...t=1393667164_651212dfb1bb5d078a1302317921c9de
http://ac.els-cdn.com/S187734351300...t=1393667164_651212dfb1bb5d078a1302317921c9de
Ok, no numbers, but my montipora foliosa look exactly the same as the one in the central picture in the case of iron lacking. Anyway where they talk about HN/AP means High N and ambient P, meaning they added exogenous nitrate to natural seawater. This situation lead to all acropopra muricata specimens to die.
Now I'm adding iron. In few days I'll see if that's the problem. I'm confindent Iron is lacking in my tank because caulerpa isn't growing any more. It remains to see if that colud ba a problem for all SPS.
About Your previous message: I used the same salt.
Now I'm adding iron. In few days I'll see if that's the problem. I'm confindent Iron is lacking in my tank because caulerpa isn't growing any more. It remains to see if that colud ba a problem for all SPS.
About Your previous message: I used the same salt.
Thales
Active member
I noticed that too. We have some at work that have looked the same that I want to follow up on.
The levels will be interesting.
Right. I have noticed that when corals are in trouble, it seems that lots of water changes can be hurtful or helpful, so I generally do one, and then leave it alone.
