Guide to setup a Quarantine Tank (QT).

Just set up my QT (20 gallon with a HOB filter, Cobalt heater and two 425gph Koralia's)

I know everyone says not to use any live rock because it would be useless after treating with copper. My question is can I add 5-6 lbs of live rock to cycle my QT and look at the live rock (aqua cultured so no reef damaged) as expendable in the event I have to treat with copper? I have ceramic media and a sponge filter in the HOB just thought the more surface area for the bacteria the better.

Or....could I cycle the tank with the live rock and then put it in the sump of my new tank (before any fish or med have been exposed to it). Would my media/sponge in the HOB have any less bacteria because of the live rock's presence?
 
I am upgrading from a 40 gallon (running 9 months and healthy) to a 90 gallon with 20 gallon sump. My LFS finally got a shipment of flame angels, we have wanted one for quite some time. Anyway, I set up a 10 gal QT tank to house the flame angel and perform the quarantine, used water from my existing tank, new ceramic rings, added some filter floss and a couple small live rocks from my existing system. The QT has been running 3 days now and I am getting a lot of algae on the live rock and on the tank bottom. It is a bare bottom tank. I do not run a light on the QT, just ambient room light during the day. Is this an issue?

No algae in qt is not a concern unless it over runs the tank. it most likely due to nitrates and phos in qt water especially when there is no light on it.
do some water changes if u wanna keep algae from growing any more.
 
any amount of ammonia is bad for fish. water changes and placing few rocks will not be a bad idea at this point.
yes u can either dry the rock out and then place it back in to main and let it get alive again over time or just discard them completely.
copper based med is the only problem which can be absorbed by the rock and leech later.
prazipro, amquel prime is not a concern with rock.
once qt is over leave rock in the empty fishless qt for 8-10 weeks just to be sure and then rinse it in a bucket of salt water and into the main.

So by using the amquel and doing these large water changes is it going to prolong the cycle, and take longer to get stable? How long should I expect to battle this ammonia for?

John
 
John i think if u place few live rock from ur main tank it should give bacteria a boost. water changes may or may not prolong the cycle at this point but are must due to fish in the tank or they will die due to ammonia poisoning.
i am guessing and this is just a guess that if u were to put few established live rocks in there and did some water changes about a week or so.
 
As a long time follower of this thread, I am in "round two" of my fish purchases, and thus round two of quarantining.

Round one went well with all of the inhabitants. Everyone ate well, and did fine with the Prazipro treatment. I did not treat with copper because I didn't see any signs of needing to, and just left everyone in the QT for the appropriate (seemed like eternity) time.

So, when I was done with round one, and with the new fish (just a single Auriga Butterfly) on its way, I took the time to empty the QT (keeping the sponges from the hob filter and from the bubbler in tank water in a bucket) and wipe and rinse the heater, pvc tubes, glass, etc. Then I filled it back up with DT water, "shook" off the sponges and put them back in, and was ready for round two.

So the butterfly is looking very interested in food, and has sampled some small flakes, but it looks like he just chews on it, and spits half of it out, but then casually goes for another piece.

I wanted to try an experiment, so I took a small piece of live rock rubble from the DT and put it in the QT. Within minutes, the fish was examining every nook and cranny of that rock to see if there was something to eat, so I know he is hungry. It I have to toss out the like rock when done, it is fine.

So he has been in the QT for 1.5 days as of last night, and I saw him start to rub on the rock and the PVC pipe. I don't see white spots easily, but this is a mostly white fish.

Did I screw up by adding the live rock rubble? Even if he isn't eating much, should I start PraziPro, or go to Cupramine?

I don't want to stress him out more with harsh medicines, but if he has some paracite bugging him, I am affraid that the longer I wait, the more it will take hold and be a lost cause.

Any insight would be appreciated.

This isn't a question so much about food, but just last night I saw him rubbing on
 
i am happy to hear round 1 went well. for round 2. butterfly behavior u mentioned is very normal. they do strike at food suck nutrients and spit out the rest sometimes swallowing the whole thing. i have a copperband butterfly 6" big 1 yr old in my tank and does the same.
while looking at rock for stuff is also very normal for them and they do that all day long. hungry or not.
anyways prazipro is ok to use at this point and thats all u need to do unless there are other parasites noticed during 8 weeks of qt.
i have had good luck with live black worms with butterfly's.
regarding ich its a tough call. i usually treat all tangs with copper. but this is a butterfly and tough to see if its infected. if u think its infected go ahead and prepare for treatment.
 
Sounds good. This is my 2nd round with a saltwater tank. 75 gallon FOWLR was torn down 8 years ago after 5 years of success (long story - not a tank/fish problem), now 120 gallon is progressing nicely, but this is my first butteryfly fish so the behavior is different than I am used to.

Thank you again for your help not only with my specific question, but with all of your support of this hobby. Between this thread and the PLEASE check out your intended fish purchases here first! one, people both new and experienced have a much improved shot at being successful.
 
ur welcome for the kind words. i wanna see everyones livestocks and tanks doing well.
 
Just set up my QT (20 gallon with a HOB filter, Cobalt heater and two 425gph Koralia's)

I know everyone says not to use any live rock because it would be useless after treating with copper. My question is can I add 5-6 lbs of live rock to cycle my QT and look at the live rock (aqua cultured so no reef damaged) as expendable in the event I have to treat with copper? I have ceramic media and a sponge filter in the HOB just thought the more surface area for the bacteria the better.

Or....could I cycle the tank with the live rock and then put it in the sump of my new tank (before any fish or med have been exposed to it). Would my media/sponge in the HOB have any less bacteria because of the live rock's presence?

Bump. Sorry if I missed the reply!
 
Bump. Sorry if I missed the reply!

i am so sorry, i get soooo many pm's and posts i must have missed ur original post.
anyways. there is no issue with putting some live rock to cycle the qt tank.
infact there is no issue till the point u add fish to the tank.
i strongly recommend that if u place some live rock in qt, place some ceramic media in the HOB and let it all cycle together. after its cycled start taking the live rock out 1/3rd every few days before u ever add any fish to it.
the reason live rock is not a good idea in qt is that some meds gets absorbed in rock making rock forever a no no to put back in main and also makes keeping a certain dosing number very hard in some case nearly impossible.

if you dont mind sacrificing few live rocks and if u dont mine doing extra testing and are very careful with copper strength and u can maintain it at 0.5 then sure leave it in there. just makes a bit harder when using copper.
 
i am so sorry, i get soooo many pm's and posts i must have missed ur original post.
anyways. there is no issue with putting some live rock to cycle the qt tank.
infact there is no issue till the point u add fish to the tank.
i strongly recommend that if u place some live rock in qt, place some ceramic media in the HOB and let it all cycle together. after its cycled start taking the live rock out 1/3rd every few days before u ever add any fish to it.
the reason live rock is not a good idea in qt is that some meds gets absorbed in rock making rock forever a no no to put back in main and also makes keeping a certain dosing number very hard in some case nearly impossible.

if you dont mind sacrificing few live rocks and if u dont mine doing extra testing and are very careful with copper strength and u can maintain it at 0.5 then sure leave it in there. just makes a bit harder when using copper.


Thanks so much. That makes sense. I couldn't quite understand how the loss of a couple of pounds of live rock was a big deal but I can see how it would make it very difficult to get a constant dose on meds.

I was planning to take the live rock out (and hopefully have my DT ready to put it in the sump) when the cycle was complete. I didn't think about what effect that would have on my ceramic media in my filter.

So you think there is enough surface area in the sponge and ceramic pellets in the filter to supply adequate bacterial growth? Should I re-dose with ammonia a few days after the live rock is out to make sure the ammonia level falls quickly? Again, can't thank you enough for the service this thread provides.
 
No algae in qt is not a concern unless it over runs the tank. it most likely due to nitrates and phos in qt water especially when there is no light on it.
do some water changes if u wanna keep algae from growing any more.


LR is a bad choice of medium for QT. It is not the most effective medium for nitrification and it is too bulky and unwieldy.



If lives other than bacteria start to grow on it, the decay may be a big problem.

LR cannot be as easly taken out as some other medium of filtration, such as crushed coral in sacks.
 
So, when I was done with round one, and with the new fish (just a single Auriga Butterfly) on its way...

So the butterfly is looking very interested in food, and has sampled some small flakes, but it looks like he just chews on it, and spits half of it out, but then casually goes for another piece.

So he has been in the QT for 1.5 days as of last night, and I saw him start to rub on the rock and the PVC pipe. I don't see white spots easily, but this is a mostly white fish.

Any insight would be appreciated.

This isn't a question so much about food, but just last night I saw him rubbing on

Well, I got home from work today, and he doesn't look good. He is no longer brilliant white and yellow, but sort of a "grey" color. I've noticed something similar in the morning, but when the lights kicked it, he lightened up. Now he is breathing heavy and definitely getting pushed around by the small powerhead in the tank. Almost like he is fighting to just swim. Sometimes he gets pushed between the glass and one of the small pieces of live rock I mentioned, and just sits on the bottom breathing heavy. I will have to head over to some other thread about what might be wrong, but I fear it is too late.

Oh, I hadn't added the PraziPro until I had already noticed him doing this tonight since I didn't see your response until I was already at work.
 
OK. So I decided to test the water, even though the Ammonia Alert like the one below was saying that there had not been any ammonia...
p_900966_21167P.jpg


Guess what? There was 0.50 ppm of ammonia and 0.50 ppm of Nitrite. I didn't bother testing anything else since those are so toxic already.

I did a 50% water change with water from my DT. The ammonia didn't hardly change but the nitrite got a lot better. So I put some AmQuel Plus in per the dosing instructions on the bottle. Then I tested my DT water, and it came back good with good pH, 0 ppm ammonia, 0 ppm nitrite, and 10 ppm nitrate.

So not sure what to do next, but knowing that the QT has toxins (even if the AmQuel is in there), we put DT water into a fish bucket and transferred the butterfly into the bucket with just a heater for now, but I will add a small bubbler to keep water moving.

Sorry for the freak-out moment. I am just upset that the fish is dying and I don't think that I can save it, plus frustrated that I bought what I thought was all of the right equipment to do a proper QT and I feel like I failed horribly. Back many years ago we had 1 QT experience, and it ended badly too. I didn't know what I was doing and didn't have a proper biofilter (sponges seeded with good bacteria) so it really feels like we are 1 for 3. :-(
 
So you think there is enough surface area in the sponge and ceramic pellets in the filter to supply adequate bacterial growth? Should I re-dose with ammonia a few days after the live rock is out to make sure the ammonia level falls quickly? Again, can't thank you enough for the service this thread provides.

live rock from an established source will import bacter that will grow on the ceramic rings. yes HOB with filters and rings can harbor enough bacteria to handle bio load of a qt. remember qt is juat a motel fish checks in and checks out and usually there is only a few guests if not just 1.

i usually keep a cardinal in qt at all times and feed it once a day to keep chemistry going.
 
OK. So I decided to test the water, even though the Ammonia Alert like the one below was saying that there had not been any ammonia...
p_900966_21167P.jpg


Guess what? There was 0.50 ppm of ammonia and 0.50 ppm of Nitrite. I didn't bother testing anything else since those are so toxic already.

I did a 50% water change with water from my DT. The ammonia didn't hardly change but the nitrite got a lot better. So I put some AmQuel Plus in per the dosing instructions on the bottle. Then I tested my DT water, and it came back good with good pH, 0 ppm ammonia, 0 ppm nitrite, and 10 ppm nitrate.

So not sure what to do next, but knowing that the QT has toxins (even if the AmQuel is in there), we put DT water into a fish bucket and transferred the butterfly into the bucket with just a heater for now, but I will add a small bubbler to keep water moving.

Sorry for the freak-out moment. I am just upset that the fish is dying and I don't think that I can save it, plus frustrated that I bought what I thought was all of the right equipment to do a proper QT and I feel like I failed horribly. Back many years ago we had 1 QT experience, and it ended badly too. I didn't know what I was doing and didn't have a proper biofilter (sponges seeded with good bacteria) so it really feels like we are 1 for 3. :-(

i have a feeling breaking down and cleaning the qt might have put the tank in cycle again. at this time i strongly suggest doing water changes and using amquel if there is going to be a fish in there. let the cycle take its course and finish.
i never break the qt down after treating fish unless its ich. i leave a cardinal in there at all times and feed it once a day.
for ur fish i hope it makes it through and if u decide to place him back in qt make sure there is no ammonia. and keep testing dont rely on the badge.
I hope it make it.
If you break down the tank next time to clean it just let it cycle again and keep ghost feeding every few days so the cycle remains in check.
the procedure u mentioned of leaving filters submerged should have kept bacteria alive but i have a feeling that between cleaning the tank and till fish was added due to no ammonia present in tank bacteria probably died off.
 
By cleaning, I mean that I took out the two clownfish and put them into the DT, I took the sponges (from the HOB and air filter) and put them in my sump, drained the water, wiped down the glass and PVC pieces with a paper towel, rinsed the glass/pvc, filled it back up with water from my DT, put the sponges back in the HOB filter, put the sponge air filter back in, and away we went. Total time was about 20 minutes. No cleaning agents used, just wiping, and the sponges stayed in good DT water.

Maybe it minicycled, but I would have thought if I had rinsed the sponges with tap water or something, but I didn't. Plus I added 5 smaller pieces of established live rock that has been in my DT for 2.5 months. I would have thought that I would have had extra good bacteria. I wonder if the live rock was the issue though. It is really the only difference between the first round with the clownfish and this round with the butterflyfish.

Sad ending tonight though. There was just too much damage done and too much stress trying to save the butterflyfish that he couldn't pull through. May sound stupid, but it is very upsetting. My wife was even in tears about it because this little guy was swimming in the ocean a week or so ago, and now he is dead because we tried to do the right thing and failed.

Several lessons learned. Before I get a replacement butterfly, I am going to empty (not clean) the QT just to get the AmQuel, PraziPro, and more importantly the ammonia and nitrite out, then fill it up, and let it run for a few days. With the weekend coming, LiveAquaria won't get the call until tomorrow afternoon from me, putting Tuesday as the earliest that I could possibly receive a replacement from them, and right now they are out of stock of the medium sized Aurigas, so maybe even longer. More time in case a mini-cycle happens. I will also use my test kit daily to test the parameters. It still blows my mind that the little alert "badge" is loved by so many, but failed so horribly for me.
 
i am so sorry to hear about the loss on the fish. ammonia can take down the fish in very little time. i am not sure what went wrong here. all the procedure u mentioned seem perfectly fine to me and it doesnt look like it would cause a problem.
some how ur bacteria took a hit not sure how. live rock from established tank and moving them over will not cause a cycle unless they were left out of water for a little while and had die off.
like i mentioned in earlier post i dont any of the stuff u did with qt once i am done. i always have 1 fish in it that resided permanently and after the other fish have completed the treatment i just do successive 3-4 x 50% water changes run carbon and continue feeding that single fish.
i know the feeling of losing a fish. but like u said lessons learned and next time you can do better for urself and ur fish.
at this time just do water changes like normally u would and let the cycle do what it needs to.
always check for ammonia and nitrites before introducing a fish to a tank.


Note: badge works well when cupramine is dosed in tank. most ammonia test kits will pick copper as ammonia and show very high ammonia readings so in order to truely know the ammonia reading we use badge as its not bothered by copper.
 
John i think if u place few live rock from ur main tank it should give bacteria a boost. water changes may or may not prolong the cycle at this point but are must due to fish in the tank or they will die due to ammonia poisoning.
i am guessing and this is just a guess that if u were to put few established live rocks in there and did some water changes about a week or so.

Yesterday the ammonia spiked to 1.0. I put some rock in there added amquel and did a 50% water change. Ammonia went back to 0

Today 1.0 again. Did a 50% water change and added amquel again. Hopefully the spiking is the high point and the cycle will end soon. Fish all seem fine knock on wood. all eating and all swimming actively.
 
Well I got my 10 gal QT set up and threw a piece of shrimp about 1/2" square to start the cycle. I'll leave it in there until I get a good ammonia spike. I'm using a small bio wheel filter and I removed the carbon from the floss.

I'd like to make the QT permanent and adopt your idea of keeping a PJ cardinal to keep the cycle going. Is it OK to put another filter with carbon in it soaking to grow good bacteria and use when not medicating? If I get the cardinal first how long should I wait to get another fish and should I be running the carbon now, soaking the floss only pad?

MY DT is 55 gal and all the fish I plan on adding will be small. If I wanted to add 2 that would put 3 in QT would that be too big of bio load in 10 gal? In a couple weeks I'll be changing a filter pad in my DT would it be a good idea to put the old one in the QT and if so would I remove it or the carbon from it if I need to medicate?
 
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