Guide to setup a Quarantine Tank (QT).

[Dr. Reef]

Forgive me if this has been answered elsewhere as my searching hasn't answered my confusion yet.

I have set up a quarantine tank that i am not sure is set up correctly. I have done it per the sticky guide. The main ? Is how do I cycle the tank?

Set up is as follows:
¤20gal tank
¤HOB filter with carbon pack removed and replaced with floss material that had been in my DT for months
¤Heater
¤water 5gal from DT and 15gal new water

After couple of days the nitrates shot up to 40. Obviously can't put a fish in there. How do I get nitrates down? Do just have to wait? How do I "cycle" it?

I did this same method to quarantine a yellow tang I got after 2 days of the tank set up and had no problem. After a month it went to DT.

When I set it up again a cardinal died within 48h.

Thanks for the help.

Hi Er-Doc:
i am also confused on how you setup the tank.
if i am assuming right you setup a 20gal tank with floss and HOB filter and heater put some water from DT and rest new.
Nitrates even at high levels dont hurt fish, they really have to be above 100ppm before they start bothering some fish.
But what i am not sure if why you have nitrates and not ammonia and nitrites.
Can you tell me if you did any testing on ammonia and nitrites on qt?
you can put a small frozen deli shrimp in the qt for about 4 days and then pull it out. if you register any ammonia then your tank needs to cycle but if it doesnt register any ammonia then qt is ready for fish.
But get back with me and tell me more details so i can guide you better.

 

[ER_Doc]

Hi Er-Doc:
i am also confused on how you setup the tank.
if i am assuming right you setup a 20gal tank with floss and HOB filter and heater put some water from DT and rest new.
Nitrates even at high levels dont hurt fish, they really have to be above 100ppm before they start bothering some fish.
But what i am not sure if why you have nitrates and not ammonia and nitrites.
Can you tell me if you did any testing on ammonia and nitrites on qt?
you can put a small frozen deli shrimp in the qt for about 4 days and then pull it out. if you register any ammonia then your tank needs to cycle but if it doesnt register any ammonia then qt is ready for fish.
But get back with me and tell me more details so i can guide you better.

Bnumair, thanks for taking interest in my quarantine tank. You understood my setup correct. I do not have ammonia or nitrite test kit. Only nitrate kit.

So the first time set up the tank I dosed with copper, tested copper level, and had a yellow tang in there for 4 weeks. No problem. I took it out and next bought a bengai cardinal. Put it in the same water and appropriate dosing of copper. Cardinal died within 48 hours. I cleaned up the tank and disassembled it. I set it up again recently as described above and put a fire dart fish in. No copper. It died within 48 hours. I haven't done anything to the tank. It is running fishless until I figure out what to do. After the fish died in an emergency bucket with fresh saltwater, I checked the QT water and it had high nitrates. The tank was running for one day before putting in the fire fish.

Should I leave the tank running at this time and wait for a cycle? Not sure what to do.

Thanks much

 

[Dr. Reef]

ER Doc.
i am pretty sure to say qt is not cycled and ammonia poisoning is whats killing your fish.
I would get a cheap ammonia kit (API under $8) and test the water for ammonia and if there is ammonia in water let the tank cycle over time till ammonia is gone. Then you can place fish in there.
My feeling is that due to copper in the HOB system its probably not letting the bacteria grow. Copper generally wipes out 20-30% of the bacterial population when dosed initially.
This time around you will need to cycle the tank and let it go through all its stages before using it for fish.
Good luck.

 

[ER_Doc]

Bnumair,

Thanks very much for the insight. Just to be clear...when we say cycle, this means to just let the tank run uninhabited until the good bacteria grow to an appropriate level and take care of the ammonia?

Do I need to do water change as well at this point or just leave it be until it is time to put a fish in QT when it has cycled enough?

Thanks again very much. I hate to be the cause of death for another fish.

 

[Dr. Reef]

Hi Er-Doc
yes you got it, you need to let the tank cycle without any living thing but u need to measure ammonia to make sure the cycle even started.
No need to change water while its cycling. once cycle is over then do a 50% water change.
If there are any more questions feel free to ask.
thnaks

 

[rmeugene]

I hope I am not asking a stupid question or one that is answered earlier. I believe I have read the entire thread but might have missed it.

I have setup a 30 gallon long, AC70 with 2 bags of the biomax that were in my sump for about a month, heater and a small power head.

My question is do you have to 'feed' your permanent setup to keep the biological filter going? I am ready to use it for the first time but I have not 'fed' it except a couple of times to make sure the ammonia level did not go crazy.

So once setup should you do anything other than topoff. Water changes? These are questions while there are no occupants.

Thanks, Rick

 

[Dr. Reef]

Hi rmeugene
that is a very good question.
Yes when the tank is fishless and awaiting future fish, in order to keep the biofilter going there has to be ammonia source present or else the bacteria will die off causing the tank t o go into cycle again when fish is introduced.
This is why i recommend either keeping a small fish in qt at all times (PJ cardinal in my case) or ghost feed every 2-3 days but then u have to siphon the buildup.
once setup and no occupants then all you need is water change once a month 50% and ghost feed every 3 days and siphon while i keep a single fish so i feed regular and do weekly water change.
Hope that answers the question.

 

[mfaso24]

I quarantine all fish before going into the main system. I quarantine for 4 weeks and don't medicate unless I have too. I try not to cause more stress with copper unless I have a reason to.

 

[rmeugene]

So if I did not do the ghost feeding should I put my biomax bags back into my sump to make sure the bacteria is still good? When I put a pinch of food in I don't seem to get a spike. I have one of those Ammonia Alerts in the tank.

So with the one fish in there how much water do you change weekly?

I just want to make sure that it is ready for me to buy a fish!

 

[Dr. Reef]

I quarantine all fish before going into the main system. I quarantine for 4 weeks and don't medicate unless I have too. I try not to cause more stress with copper unless I have a reason to.

This is what i recommend, i observe all fish 4-6 weeks in qt and treat all fish with only prazipro. if some disease occurs then i treat accordingly.
But rules change with Tangs. All tangs in qt get treated with hyposalinity in my house.
Good luck and safe reefing.

 

[Dr. Reef]

So if I did not do the ghost feeding should I put my biomax bags back into my sump to make sure the bacteria is still good? When I put a pinch of food in I don't seem to get a spike. I have one of those Ammonia Alerts in the tank.

So with the one fish in there how much water do you change weekly?

I just want to make sure that it is ready for me to buy a fish!

No i wouldnt, just feed tank every 3-4 days.
Honestly with 1 small fish in qt i do a water change every 10-14 days only to siphon un-eaten food and waste and its really not much of a water change as only a gal or 2 gets siphoned. But once a month i do a 25-50% water change.

 

[ER_Doc]

Bnumair, thanks for taking interest in my quarantine tank. You understood my setup correct. I do not have ammonia or nitrite test kit. Only nitrate kit.

So the first time set up the tank I dosed with copper, tested copper level, and had a yellow tang in there for 4 weeks. No problem. I took it out and next bought a bengai cardinal. Put it in the same water and appropriate dosing of copper. Cardinal died within 48 hours. I cleaned up the tank and disassembled it. I set it up again recently as described above and put a fire dart fish in. No copper. It died within 48 hours. I haven't done anything to the tank. It is running fishless until I figure out what to do. After the fish died in an emergency bucket with fresh saltwater, I checked the QT water and it had high nitrates. The tank was running for one day before putting in the fire fish.

Should I leave the tank running at this time and wait for a cycle? Not sure what to do.

Thanks much

Bnumair,

I am hoping I got this QT running correctly. I did get an ammonia kit as you suggest. Before I put my royal gramma in 36 hours ago I checked parameters. ammonia was slightly above 0, < 0.25 and nitrates were about 5. I did a 50% water change using water from my DT that is clean and had a water change the day before. I did bring copper level up to 1 again as my intent is to prophylactically treat (I know there are lots of arguments for and against this method).

I put the royal gramma in there after acclimation and he was doing well. swimming all around. didn't ever find the need to hide in the PVC. I went to work last night (at about 24 hours of the fish in the QT) and when I came back at 2am from my shift I checked on the fish and it was "dead". It was upside down stuck behind the filter intake of HOB. I thought maybe its sleeping so I nudged it free and it floated backwards to the other side of the tank. I sadly went to sleep expecting to clean up a mess tomorrow and a failed quarantine for the 3rd time.

This morning I woke up and my Royal Gramma is swimming around the tank happy as can be and ALIVE! I am so confused what happened with this fish. Happy it's alive but do fish "play dead?" Ammonia level again is somewhere between 0 and 0.25 with my API kit.

Thanks much.

 

[mattack]

size

size

I have question on size of Qt tank giving that my DT is 29 biocube and I want have any fish bigger then 3inch would be ok to just have 5 gallon QT tank dont realy have room for a 10 or larger . What problems my a run into with one that small?

 

[Dr. Reef]

I have question on size of Qt tank giving that my DT is 29 biocube and I want have any fish bigger then 3inch would be ok to just have 5 gallon QT tank dont realy have room for a 10 or larger . What problems my a run into with one that small?

if you really dont have the room for a bigger than 5gal tank then you dont have the room for it. lol but it will work for your needs as you are not buying large fish nor species that require large tanks for swimming space.
The only thing in small tanks is the temp control. they tend to run hotter and evaporate a bit more so you may experience warmer temps and larger swings in salinity if not kept up with replacing evaporated water.
If you think you can get that under control then it shouldnt be an issue at all.

 

[marin8n]

Just finished all 52 pages of this thread...whew! Anyways, thank you bnumair for all the great advice. I am in the process of stocking a 300DD FOWLR and actually discovered this thread 5 weeks into my 6 week hypo QT of my first fish (Bennett's Sharp-nosed puffer and one spot foxface) and have a few comments to add. I belong to a local reef club here in south Florida and one of our recent meetings we had a well known, published speaker on fish diseases and quarantine procedures. I took copious notes and as a result started my QT with salinity at 1.010. Not having setup a new tank in a few years, I kinda forgot about the whole cycling thing so have been doing almost daily water changes to keep ammonia and nitrites under wraps.

After reading this thread I will be keeping a cycled permanent QT from now on and save the tedious water changes. A couple of things I did under his guidance that seem to differ from the conventional wisdom but worked just fine:
-SG at 1.010 rather than 1.009 (calibrated refractometer crucial)
-No temp or salinity acclimation (ph check only). Fish went directly from bags to new tank with lights off. He says temp swing is a non-issue and the sudden drop in SG is not an issue, just to bring SG back to desired level at a max .002/day
-40 days for all fish, even healthy
-60 days from last symptom leaving sick fish

I also did a week of prazipro and plan on doing a second before moving fish to QT. Both fish are eating and looking great.

My original plan was to sanitize the tank, filters, etc between each set of fish but now I think I should be to maintain everything under hypo, just doing a 100% waterchange between fish. I am also going to use those old ceramic rings that came with my nano cube 5 year ago that I've had buried in the closet. Thanks for all the great advice and helping people practice sound fish husbandry!

 

[Dr. Reef]

Hi marin8n
thanks for ur comments and info from a well known speaker.
Hyposalinity is infact a wide range and not as close window as explained in many cases.
infact hyposalinity is practiced anywhere from 1.009 to 1.013 range.
Key is to lower the salt to such lower levels where ich cannot survive.
if done properly and in course time it is very well 100% effective.
In my guides i generally teld to stay on very strict path as there are many number of reefers following that guide and many variables can be involved without me being present in every setup everyday i cant really predict with 100% accuracy,
So what do i do? i play very very safe.
In doing so i have to be at the levels that would definitely work for everyone.
Second comment about temp and salinity match not really required: again i agree with the speaker but in order for me to play safe i have to preach the acclimation process or otherwise you know many people might kill their fish and blame my guide for flaws.
again i do agree lower salinity is generally not a huge issue but raising is.
I will link 2 guides for treatment, 1 for hypo 2 for copper.
hope it helps everyone.
Safe Reefing.

 

[Dr. Reef]

For Hyposalinity I have written a guide, Here is the link for it:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2300497

For Copper based meds (cupramine) here is a link to that guide:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=20614751#post20614751

Hope it helps.
Safe Reefing and Good Luck.

 

[TegaCayReefer]

I am not having any luck at all doing a quarantine on fish, or maybe it is that I am having good luck, not sure. First the background, 20 gallon aquarium set up for over 6 months, did the cycle and added a PJ Cardinal. The PJ cardinal has done fine in the tank over this time period. So I started off running a McCosker wrasse through QT and it died about 3 weeks into the process, not sure what went wrong. I never used any chemicals in the tanks since all had looked good. Then 4 weeks ago I put a possum wrasse into QT to find him dead this evening. He did not come out to eat last night so I did check on him then and he looked to be fine. As soon as I found him this afternoon I ran tests and all looked good, nitrites, nitrates, PH, ALK and Ammonia. Nothing out of range. Also double checked the temp since it has been so cold lately and it was good. And the PJ cardinal is still in the tank looking fine. Any thoughts?

 

[Dr. Reef]

I am not having any luck at all doing a quarantine on fish, or maybe it is that I am having good luck, not sure. First the background, 20 gallon aquarium set up for over 6 months, did the cycle and added a PJ Cardinal. The PJ cardinal has done fine in the tank over this time period. So I started off running a McCosker wrasse through QT and it died about 3 weeks into the process, not sure what went wrong. I never used any chemicals in the tanks since all had looked good. Then 4 weeks ago I put a possum wrasse into QT to find him dead this evening. He did not come out to eat last night so I did check on him then and he looked to be fine. As soon as I found him this afternoon I ran tests and all looked good, nitrites, nitrates, PH, ALK and Ammonia. Nothing out of range. Also double checked the temp since it has been so cold lately and it was good. And the PJ cardinal is still in the tank looking fine. Any thoughts?

first off sorry for the loss.
could you give me a bit more detail where the fish were purchased from and how they were transported then how they were acclimated to qt.

 

[TegaCayReefer]

I have 10 fish and they have all come from the same local fish store that is about 10 minutes from my house. Prior to these last two I was not doing QT. As to acclimination I float the bag for 20 mins and then add a small amount of tank water every 5 mins until it is doubled. Thhat usually takes another 30 mins. Then I pour most of the water out of the bag and let the fish swim out.