Guys, I need some Help with a Powder Brown Tang
- Thread starter AJtheReefer
- Start date
jeffbrig
Premium Member
If you're seeing tiny black spots, I would assume it's black ich and treat it accordingly. IME, a few minutes in a FW dip and it's gone. Quick and easy. Just make sure to match temp and pH. Use a tiny amount of anhydrous (baked) baking soda to raise the pH to where it matches the saltwater. A pH probe/meter is key here. It only takes a little bit. If you overshoot, get more water and try again.
AJtheReefer
New member
Jeff,
Thanks a lot for the response. Should a FW dip the Dottyback as well?
Would any parasite remain on the QT tank?
Thank You
Thanks a lot for the response. Should a FW dip the Dottyback as well?
Would any parasite remain on the QT tank?
Thank You
jeffbrig
Premium Member
Depending on the length of time, yes they can drop off and remain in the QT tank. How long have you had the fish? I dipped a YT with black ich the day after I got it, and never had any signs of recurrence on it or any of the other fish that were in QT with it. The longer you wait before dipping, the more likely something has dropped off the fish.
AJtheReefer
New member
I got it on Friday (5/25)
I'm preparing the FW bath as I type. Was adding Methylene blue, but had to discard all that water since I was unable to get the PH right.
Will do FW dip only
I'm preparing the FW bath as I type. Was adding Methylene blue, but had to discard all that water since I was unable to get the PH right.
Will do FW dip only
AJtheReefer
New member
OK. I did a 10 minutes FW Dip and the small specs are still there.
For now I will assume that the specs are natural pigmentation and I'm not dealing with Black ick. Is that a safe assumption?
The Fish seems to be fine, after the dip the fish was in a corner stressed. After 3-5 minutes, he started swimming normally.
I think the scratching is due to the white ich. Hopefully he gets better after a day or so due to the hypo salinity.
I lowered the SG to 1.009 yesterday. So the 6 weeks clock started ticking yesterday. How soon should I expect for the fish to shows no symptoms of White Ick?
Thanks
For now I will assume that the specs are natural pigmentation and I'm not dealing with Black ick. Is that a safe assumption?
The Fish seems to be fine, after the dip the fish was in a corner stressed. After 3-5 minutes, he started swimming normally.
I think the scratching is due to the white ich. Hopefully he gets better after a day or so due to the hypo salinity.
I lowered the SG to 1.009 yesterday. So the 6 weeks clock started ticking yesterday. How soon should I expect for the fish to shows no symptoms of White Ick?
Thanks
jeffbrig
Premium Member
The length of time for hypo to be effective is different in each situation. The way hypo works is by interfering with the organism's ability to encyst and reproduce. Normally, after dropping off of a fish, the organism will land on the bottom and form a membrane around it while it goes through its nuclear division process. After a period of time, the membrane bursts, releasing a whole bunch of free swimming infectious buggers. Hypo works because the organism is not able to form a membrane, and therefore cannot reproduce, leaving it to die on the bottom.
That being said, if you had ich on your fish, and it was able to drop off and encyst before you lowered the salinity, it is possible that you have reproducing ich on the bottom of your tank right now, which will hatch, reinfect the fish, and then eventually drop off and not be able to reproduce. So, do not be freaked out if you see additional signs of new ich cysts on your fish for the first week or so.
Also, don't mistake an occasional air bubble for a new ich cyst. If something is on your fish one hour and not there the next, it might have just been a bubble. You can typically tell ich because you will see a raised area on the fish's body prior to a full eruption (the parasite imbedded under the surface). Almost like a pimple coming to a head, and then you will see the telltale white bump (the parasite engorged from feeding) and then after it falls off, typically a little area of scuffed up skin.
--Christy (Jeff's wife)
That being said, if you had ich on your fish, and it was able to drop off and encyst before you lowered the salinity, it is possible that you have reproducing ich on the bottom of your tank right now, which will hatch, reinfect the fish, and then eventually drop off and not be able to reproduce. So, do not be freaked out if you see additional signs of new ich cysts on your fish for the first week or so.
Also, don't mistake an occasional air bubble for a new ich cyst. If something is on your fish one hour and not there the next, it might have just been a bubble. You can typically tell ich because you will see a raised area on the fish's body prior to a full eruption (the parasite imbedded under the surface). Almost like a pimple coming to a head, and then you will see the telltale white bump (the parasite engorged from feeding) and then after it falls off, typically a little area of scuffed up skin.
--Christy (Jeff's wife)
AJtheReefer
New member
Christy,
Thank you so much for that explanation. It's very helpful.
Thank you so much for that explanation. It's very helpful.
AJtheReefer
New member
another question. . . . since I'm a bit concerned of the effects of the FW dip.
The fish was swimming and roaming around the tank (a bit lethargic) after 5 minutes or so after the dip.
The anal fin loosed some coloration and there was some fuzziness on the side fins; with that said the fish coloration is back to normal now. But the fish seems to be breathing a more rapidly than normal and his mouth looks a bit more open.
Maybe is all in my head. . . And I hope I didn't cause any permanent damages and I wish I went shorter on the dip.
Should I be concerned?
The fish was swimming and roaming around the tank (a bit lethargic) after 5 minutes or so after the dip.
The anal fin loosed some coloration and there was some fuzziness on the side fins; with that said the fish coloration is back to normal now. But the fish seems to be breathing a more rapidly than normal and his mouth looks a bit more open.
Maybe is all in my head. . . And I hope I didn't cause any permanent damages and I wish I went shorter on the dip.
Should I be concerned?
Marine fish will get pretty freaked out about the FW dip. If they survive it, they usually recover after a while. I've done it many times and only lost one fish, but it died immediately after I returned it to the tank.
My yellow tank developed black ich a couple of days after I got it. After a FW dip, he was fine and it has never recurred.
My yellow tank developed black ich a couple of days after I got it. After a FW dip, he was fine and it has never recurred.
jeffbrig
Premium Member
Rapid breathing is a sign of many fish ailments. It could just be that the fish's gills are irritated from the ich. Our achilles, who was suffering a recent bad bout of ich, got so bad at one point that one of his gills was clamped, and the other working triple time to try and keep up. Thankfully, he recovered.
Unfortunately, rapid breathing can also be associated with many other things - such as brooklynella and velvet. Keep a close eye out for any other symptoms.
And, last check your parameters, specifically your pH and your ammmonia levels. Your QT is small and likely not cycled. This type of tang can be adversely affected by even a tiny amount of ammonia, and rapid breathing could be a sign. Also keep an eye on your pH. It can get dangerously low while in hypo. You will likely need to buffer with some washing soda (baked baking soda).
Also, I find that sometimes fish are just stressed from the QT/treatment process. Rapid breathing and color blanching can all be signs of this. When in doubt, put your fish to bed by shutting the lights off, or if this isn't possible, throw a towel over the tank. Sometimes this can work wonders.
--Christy (still too lazy to log out and back in)
Unfortunately, rapid breathing can also be associated with many other things - such as brooklynella and velvet. Keep a close eye out for any other symptoms.
And, last check your parameters, specifically your pH and your ammmonia levels. Your QT is small and likely not cycled. This type of tang can be adversely affected by even a tiny amount of ammonia, and rapid breathing could be a sign. Also keep an eye on your pH. It can get dangerously low while in hypo. You will likely need to buffer with some washing soda (baked baking soda).
Also, I find that sometimes fish are just stressed from the QT/treatment process. Rapid breathing and color blanching can all be signs of this. When in doubt, put your fish to bed by shutting the lights off, or if this isn't possible, throw a towel over the tank. Sometimes this can work wonders.
--Christy (still too lazy to log out and back in)
coralfragger101
Gone Postal
Wish I had a wife that took an interest in my addiction. Unfortunately, after 20 yrs, I don't think I can trade her in on a newer model.
AJtheReefer
New member
Pedromatic and Christy
Thank you so much for the feedback and recommendations.
I'm happy to report that the Tang seems to be back to normal. With good color, eating, swimming and breathing normally.
I think the FW dip did something good. The scratching has stopped and the colors have remained good and she hasn't gone back to the pale almost translucent color. I think some marks that she had around the belly area have disappear as well; but I'm not sure since I have maintained the lights down to reduce stress.
I'm trying to keep on top of the PH and ammonia. I've been buffering all the water and my PH is hovering around 7.95-8.1, have a Seachem "Ammonia Alert" and it is marking Alert, but has never gone up to Alarm. I've been doing 25% to 30% water changes daily.
I also have Seachem Prime, just in case. But I rather not use it since it destroy the re-agents of my FastTest Ammonia test and I get false ammonia readings.
A lot of works, but I think it would be worth it at the end
Thank you so much for the feedback and recommendations.
I'm happy to report that the Tang seems to be back to normal. With good color, eating, swimming and breathing normally.
I think the FW dip did something good. The scratching has stopped and the colors have remained good and she hasn't gone back to the pale almost translucent color. I think some marks that she had around the belly area have disappear as well; but I'm not sure since I have maintained the lights down to reduce stress.
I'm trying to keep on top of the PH and ammonia. I've been buffering all the water and my PH is hovering around 7.95-8.1, have a Seachem "Ammonia Alert" and it is marking Alert, but has never gone up to Alarm. I've been doing 25% to 30% water changes daily.
I also have Seachem Prime, just in case. But I rather not use it since it destroy the re-agents of my FastTest Ammonia test and I get false ammonia readings.
A lot of works, but I think it would be worth it at the end
jeffbrig
Premium Member
Alert is probably enough to bother a tang. Our achilles used to have one eye that got cloudy anytime the ammonia test showed the slightest bit of color. He was like the canary in the coal mine for ammonia. Definitely keep doing the water changes.
What kind of filter are you using? We have always found it helpful to ask one of our favorite LFSs for some dirty pads when we are starting QT, that way the tank has a big jump start on cycling.
--Christy
What kind of filter are you using? We have always found it helpful to ask one of our favorite LFSs for some dirty pads when we are starting QT, that way the tank has a big jump start on cycling.
--Christy
Rogger Castells
New member
Interesting reading, I was convinced all along that the ich cyst actually will burst in contact with the fresh water due to the osmotic imbalance, I did not know that they could actually survive fresh water and just not be able to form a membrane.
I also didn't know that ich reproduced through Mitosis, is this a fact?
I also didn't know that ich reproduced through Mitosis, is this a fact?
AJtheReefer
New member
I'm using various pieces of sponge material that was on my display sump for a couple of weeks. In addition to the power filter pads that were in the sump also.
Honestly with tangs and ich I have found that the best medicine is for them to be feed heavily in the main display.
The ich has always naturally been fought off by the fishes own immune system and in my experience the fluctuations of water quality and constant change in a QT tank has only made the fish more stressed and weaker.
The last purple tang I added broke out with ich on day 1 and by day 3 he was perfectly fine along with all the other fish in the tank ( which includes 3 yellow tangs, 2 purple tang, 1 blue hippo, 1 naso, 1 valamingi, 1 mimic).
The ich has always naturally been fought off by the fishes own immune system and in my experience the fluctuations of water quality and constant change in a QT tank has only made the fish more stressed and weaker.
The last purple tang I added broke out with ich on day 1 and by day 3 he was perfectly fine along with all the other fish in the tank ( which includes 3 yellow tangs, 2 purple tang, 1 blue hippo, 1 naso, 1 valamingi, 1 mimic).
AJtheReefer
New member
Here is the tang in QT. I took the pictures just a few minutes ago. Still active eating her nori. The picture on the lower left corner is the Orchid Dottyback that is in QT as well.
jeffbrig
Premium Member
Actually, I doubt its mytosis, not that I can remember what that process actually entails. Ninth grade bio was a loooonnng time ago. I didn't mean to say "nuclear division" earlier, just "division." I think its a process of single cell division/fission actually since ich is a protozoan. One parasite goes into the membrane and many free swimming infections buggers (tomites) come out. I do know that copper specifically targets this free swimming stage.
As for how hypo works, most of the literature I have read indicates it "bursts" the tomont stage, which is the stage that is encysted and reproducing on the bottom of the tank, or prohibits the ich from forming its membrane at this time. There is a lot of colloquial information which talks about freshwater dips helping to burst the infectious ich theront that is burrowed into the fish, but I don't know if there is scientific evidence of this as of yet. I think sometimes there is some confusion as to the stages. When the literature states "hyposalinity bursts the encysted stage," some people might think that means the stage burrowed into the fish, but it is generally referring to the reproductive dormant stage.
--Christy
Very interesting reading, all I know is that the sharply-defined black spots on my tang changed their appearance immediately when the fish was put into the FW dip. Most "spots" got fuzzy and fell off. The fish was fine after being returned to the tank and behaved normally after an expected recovery period.
