Hair algae toxic to Mexican turbos?

[headhawg7]

This is the dilema I have: I have a 30g refugium with a 2" sand bed with live sand and about 30lbs of LR. I have had my fuge going now for about 7 months. I put a dual 85w incadecent flood light setup on the fuge and it was about 4" from the water surface. I started to get alot of hair algae growing before I got my Chaetomorpha algae. Once I did recieve my Chaeto I cleaned all the hair algae out of the fuge and put some Mexican turbos in there. After I put in the Chaeto it became white rather quickly and started to wilt. I figured the bulbs were to close at 4" and moved them to about 12". I put about 20 Mexican turbos in there about a month ago and all but 2 have died. The hair algae is back and growing on the Chaeto and has just about covered it. I have alot of Mexican turbos in my main tank and they do fine. I have no hair algae in my main tank at all. My main tank is spotless as far as bad microalgaes go.

The Chaeto I put in the fuge was about the size of a softball. It has all but wilted and been covered in hair algae.

What I was planning on doing, and would like some incite on, was to add a bunch more algae that I can find locally, mainly tang heaven and grape and feather caulerpa and whatever else I can find locally that is pretty common at most LFS. The problem I have is the algae going sexual since I have a reverse light cycle. Should I do what I just mentioned and also purchase a whole bunch nore Mexican turbos? Any thoughts? Thanks Danny

 

[ludwigia]

Danny,

I have experienced the same issue with turbo snails. I had what I thought to be a derbesia (hairalgae) infestation. I purchased a dozen Mexican turbo snails in a matter of a few days I watched them slowly die...all of them.

I have found that caulerpa hasn't gone asexual if the photoperoid on the refugium is 24/7. The caulerpa growth is actually very good. The problem is the hairalgae also grows quite well.

One of these days, I have been contemplating acclimating some good old mollies to marine conditions and see if they have a appetitie for the stuff.

Even though my hairaglae issue is much improved, it is still not resolved.

Good luck,

Tim

 

[headhawg7]

The strange thing is in my main tank that the fuge is hooked up to has not hair algae and has Mexican turbos that have been in there for close to a year. I have not lost a Mexican turbo in my main tank in almost 6 months. But in my fuge they kill over like crazy. It has to be the hair algae. I am almost tempted to let the hair algae grow and harvest it like they caulerpas and chaeto. It is a great nutrient export and the pods and zooplankton seem to love it. The hair algae has been growing in there for a while and has not spread to the main tank. Even if it did I am pretty sure my cleanup crew is sufficient to eat any traces that might possibly show up.

 

[quack]

the mex turbos like it cooler 76 or so. If ur fuge runs hotter it could explain their early death. I dont think hair algae is the culprit

 

[Plantbrain]

I do not think Mollies will do much for your hair algae, they don't like the tough forms of marine hair algae, they do okay with FW Rhizocolnium and other soft greens but they will not touch Cladophora etc.

I've subjected Turbos to all sorts of environmental angst, temp much warmer than 80F for sustained peroids, they are multiplying nicely, I must have 20 now.

They do okay, I'm not impressed too much by them as far as workers.

Regards,
Tom Barr

 

[ludwigia]

Interesting Tom,

Do you have any other suggestions as far as herbivores ?

I once had a Ransford Goby that nibbled at the stuff, but has since exspired. (Another argument for algae toxicity) In the same genus is the brown Barred Goby, who my LFS gal swears eats the stuff, but I haven't been able to locate one. Anyway the brown bar is a major sand sifter, and I do believe that wouldn't make my turtlegrass to happy. My algae blenny now decided he likes flake food better.

I have a bunch of different hermits (blue legs, scarlets, red legs etc) that do a fair job of keeping the rocks clean. The astrea snails won't keep it off the glass.

The thing that has worked the best is large large water changes.

Does your botony background lead you to believe there is such a thing as toxic marine hairalgae?

Regards,

Tim

 

[Plantbrain]

It's possible, but I'd think the plants/hair algae generally just don't want to be eaten, so they produce unpaletable chemicals.

Preference studies can be done easily for herbivores/nutrient status/nutrient quality/digestability of the seaweed.

Whether they are toxic in closed systems is another issue. Might be. I'd just go in and tooth brush or pick the algae off anyway.

Fluffing off smaller algae, picking, cleaning etc.
It's work. Folks think I make a tank and it looks perfect forever.

No, it's work.

I also do more water changes than most SW folks, roughly 60-70% every two weeks.

If you have a 180 gal tank, then that's an issue, but few marine planted tank will be this big. At least for awhile.

I think the issue may have trouble being resolved here as to "why".

But what to do and what action seems a much easier issue to deal with.
Water changes, manual removal, cleaning the tank etc, good food for the fish, good chemical parameters etc.

Do all that FIRST, then start thinking about why the plants/fish have troubles.

You cannot rule out all these parameters to see the impact of toxins in one species of algae without frist dealing with those other confounding issues.

I would suspect those other issues to be of greater importance in most cases.
And it will not hurt to work on those issues either before trying to see about this one.

Do that first, then try figuring out toxins in the algae itself etc.


Regards,
Tom Barr

 

[ludwigia]

Tom,

Good advice.

The picking off and tooth brushing ( and later net sweeping) is an endless task, but very effective. I do my water changes as 40-50% weekly, so I may be getting the same amount of water turn over that you get at 60-70% every other week.

But the big question in my mind is the water parameters. Assuming we are shooting for the "standard" targets for salinity, Ca, and alkalinity ( are we??) What levels of NO3, K, Fe, P or other plant nutrients are we targeting? I would asssume that most of these levels are fine just by doing water changes. Its in the salt. But NO3 and P better not be. In your experience, what levels do you shoot for?

System parameters is a great place to start with algae problems. It also would be great to find a herbivore to help with manual control. It seems some fish are hit or miss. Depending on the individual, some eat it, some won't. And tangs are just out of the queston.

Tim

 

[AcroSteve]

I have the same issues win my fuge. The smaller astrea turbos are not as effected.

 

[headhawg7]

I am pulling my hair out, pun intended.

 

[Plantbrain]

I'm just skeptical about toxic hair algae killing off snails.

As far as nutrients levels etc, that's another post.

I keep 1.023, Ca and alk high, NO3 can be higher, PO4 nope.
Iron can be higher.

You can figure it this way: there cannot be two limiting nutrients at the same time.

So start with PO4.
Feed the fish regularly.

Regards,
Tom Barr

 

[headhawg7]

I have not checked my phosphate levels recently but my nitrate is 0. I also keep mine at 1.023 and alk is 10.08dkh and calcium is 495. I have no hair or any other nuisance algae in my main tank. Only in my fuge. Then again I do not have the same gallon/cleanup crew ratio as I do in my main tank. I am also using different spectrum bulbs on my fuge. I think it is the spectrum of the bulbs. I am thinking about putting my old MH 175w 5000k bulb over the fuge. Then adding around 30 or so MExican turbos. Either that or use the fuge as a algal scrubber full of byropsis or hair algae and harvesting once every couple of weeks. Any thoughts on this?