Having terrible time hand-dosing

[iwishtofish]

I have been trying to maintain my alk at 9 dKH in my 75g tank. I hand dose my alk (Ca not really consumed much), and typically dose around 25-30 ml in the morning, and then in the evening. I use the "pH neutral" mix per the BRS instructions, and my pH doesn't even flinch on my monitor. My alk has fluctuated gradually between a high 8 dKH and a high 9 dKH (API kit).

I only have 3 sps: one old tri-color valida that I light-bleached (and is now regaining purple after months and months); one struggling purple bonsai frag (interceptor dip); and one nice ORA blue vodoo staghorn frag.

The tip of the bonsai was burned some, and tissue still hasn't regenerated. The tips of the staghorn are starting to burn, and that coral looked wonderfl for a couple weeks. The old tri-color is still recovering nicely.

What is causing my tips to burn??

 

[iwishtofish]

The stats:

Alk 9 dKH
Ca 440
Sg 1.0265-1.027
Mg About 1300 (just brought up very gradually from 1175)


Lights:

Tek 6-bulb T5 with Giesemann bulbs. 36" from bottom glass of tank. Tank is 21" tall. Bulbs are recent.

 

[Allmost]

well, all the problems and swings and instablilities you have listed, have caused the ISsues.

seems like you know how to solve them too

 

[iwishtofish]

well, all the problems and swings and instablilities you have listed, have caused the ISsues.

seems like you know how to solve them too

Magnesium at 1175 low enough to cause bad things? It's been back in the safe zone for over a week, I think, and the staghorn is still deteriorating...

Do you have any tips for hand-dosing better, or is there no real way to do that well? I guess what I'm really hoping for is a way to zero in on consumption and figure out exactly how much to dose each day. I don't know why I am having such a hard time with that...

 

[Allmost]

any pictures ?


no mg shouldnt have tht effect, I meant swing of KH, none stability of SG. it should be something EXACT, not a range ! also no CA++ consumption means tank is not mature enough yet.

 

[ghostman]

+1 to stability. I recently purchased a Bubble Magus doser, and am very happy with the results. Probably the best piece of equipment for piece of mind. Now I dose 24 hours a day, alk and ca are rock solid. My mag is always up there too, I like 1400+. Do you use pellets, zee, or something like that? Alk might be too high if you do. I shoot for 8.0

 

[sneaton]

+1 to stability. I recently purchased a Bubble Magus doser, and am very happy with the results. Probably the best piece of equipment for piece of mind. Now I dose 24 hours a day, alk and ca are rock solid. My mag is always up there too, I like 1400+. Do you use pellets, zee, or something like that? Alk might be too high if you do. I shoot for 8.0

=+1 i use pellets and when my alk goes above 8 i notice the tip burns....yesterday i just installed brs 1.1 ml/min dosing pumps and have them set to does 8 times a day.....i cant wait to test today to see my numbers without spilling capfulls of alk and cal everywhere

 

[iwishtofish]

I can try to get a picture of the coral later when the lights come on. The coral is deteriorating further - some mesenterial filaments have started to emerge, which is what happened with another staghorn before it died a good while back. I thnk some of my trouble has been reading the API kit. I guess a slight change to yellow indicates a low reading of that number, and a full-yellow is a solid reading of the number? Arg

I have a Hanna Checker for PO4 in the mailbox, just have to go out and get it. I have no real algae growth, aside from a miniscule bit in the sump, so I imagine my PO4 is on the low side. We'll see soon.

I just started to dose a little alk to bring the reading to a solid 9 (was just tested, and solution turned slightly yellow with the 9th drop), but I stopped after dosing about 15ml. Does anyone think I should let it drop to 8 dKH, and try to keep it there?

Thanks for the help!

 

[iwishtofish]

Sorry - no pellets. GFO is in use, but probably about saturated. It hasn't been swapped out since the coral arrived. I run carbon, too.

There is some Ca consumption, but it's pretty slow. So I don't dose that unless I notice it dropping. The tank has been up for a year. It was started with 50 lbs of dry rock, 8 lbs of live rock, and has one fish (Kole tang) and some hungry inverts.

 

[RynosReef]

Have you considered using kalk? Maybe in your ATO reservoir if you have one? I also have a 75g tank aand was dosing manually about 45ml+ a day to try and maintain. But the cost was getting extreme and without a doser I was getting swings trying to make up for what the corals would use. I switched to kalk about 2 months ago. $12 and it'll last me probably a year as opposed to the $500 I was paying a yr on 2the part. My Alk is very stable now, and im not checking and dosing all the time and the corals have definitely improved color. I still use 2 part but just to tweak the levels slightly. Just my 2 cents worth but it might be worth looking into.

 

[iwishtofish]

Have you considered using kalk? Maybe in your ATO reservoir if you have one? I also have a 75g tank aand was dosing manually about 45ml+ a day to try and maintain. But the cost was getting extreme and without a doser I was getting swings trying to make up for what the corals would use. I switched to kalk about 2 months ago. $12 and it'll last me probably a year as opposed to the $500 I was paying a yr on 2the part. My Alk is very stable now, and im not checking and dosing all the time and the corals have definitely improved color. I still use 2 part but just to tweak the levels slightly. Just my 2 cents worth but it might be worth looking into.

I think I should reconsider that. I'd have to clean out a 40b I have laying around, and use it for the reservoir. Isn't there the chance, though, of alk levels rising or falling steadily with kalk? Doesn't it require fine-tuning, as well?

Also, I replenish two or more gallons/day in topoff. I'd feel better dosing it with a dosing pump.

 

[dzhuo]

I hand dose my alk (Ca not really consumed much), and typically dose around 25-30 ml in the morning, and then in the evening.

My alk has fluctuated gradually between a high 8 dKH and a high 9 dKH (API kit).

I only have 3 sps

Is the fluctuation daily? You seem to dose a lot of alk for 3 (small, non-growing?) frags. Even if the frags are growing, the amount of alk you dose don't seem to justify the demand.

Have you try stop dosing at all? With 3 small frags in a 75g (+ sump) system, I wouldn't expect your alk to move that much and just bi-weekly water change might be enough until demand goes up.

 

[MammothReefer]

I'm sure somebody with a better understanding of water chemistry then me will chime in, but from what I understand and have observed Low magnesium will cause you to have stability issues with alk/calc

I've find when I keep my magnesium where it needs to be I have an easier time keep Alk/Calc where they need to be

"If you push the concentration of either too high, CaCO3 will start to precipitate. Magnesium interferes with this process, permitting both calcium and carbonate to be elevated above where they would be in the absence of magnesium."

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2003/10/chemistry#section-9

 

[Allmost]

I'm sure somebody with a better understanding of water chemistry then me will chime in, but from what I understand and have observed Low magnesium will cause you to have stability issues with alk/calc

I've find when I keep my magnesium where it needs to be I have an easier time keep Alk/Calc where they need to be

"If you push the concentration of either too high, CaCO3 will start to precipitate. Magnesium interferes with this process, permitting both calcium and carbonate to be elevated above where they would be in the absence of magnesium."

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2003/10/chemistry#section-9

+1

MG is the element preventing ca++ and co3 from percipitating.

 

[iwishtofish]

Is the fluctuation daily? You seem to dose a lot of alk for 3 (small, non-growing?) frags. Even if the frags are growing, the amount of alk you dose don't seem to justify the demand.

Have you try stop dosing at all? With 3 small frags in a 75g (+ sump) system, I wouldn't expect your alk to move that much and just bi-weekly water change might be enough until demand goes up.

I know that my alk drops if I stop dosing - it has gone as low as 7 dKH before, and I started dosing because I was afraid it would drop even lower. Even though my tank has been up for a year, things have never been stable. I have definitely not done everything perfectly, though, so I bear some blame. I have only done small water changes, and not as frequently as I should. I imagine that is why my magnesium dropped so low.

I have some other corals: a duncan, a trumpet, a torch, a favia, a tiny chalice, a small galaxea, a hydnophora (losing tissue), a small monti cap, some zoas, some GSP. The LPS look pretty healthy right now. Nothing has ever grown well, although I did notice some growth on the chalice recently. Coralline has started growing on my rock in the sump, since I decreased the light in there, but it won't grow up top. I've seen an improvement in colors on one acro, the duncan, and the trumpet since I installed new T5 bulbs. My CBS and remaning hermits have been with me a good while and seem fine. My peppermint shrimp acclimated well and seems fine, too. But for the corals, things just aren't quite right. I lost a beautiful aussie elegance that was doing great for a couple weeks, then rapidly declined. I'm thinking of changing from IO to some other salt, just to see what happens. I'm also thinking of adding more fish, just to dirty things up.

Definitely getting a little discouraged - almost to the point of thinking of taking the whole thing down, even though I have so much money tied up in it. A year in, and things should be so much better. Sorry for the long post!

 

[iwishtofish]

I'm sure somebody with a better understanding of water chemistry then me will chime in, but from what I understand and have observed Low magnesium will cause you to have stability issues with alk/calc

I've find when I keep my magnesium where it needs to be I have an easier time keep Alk/Calc where they need to be

"If you push the concentration of either too high, CaCO3 will start to precipitate. Magnesium interferes with this process, permitting both calcium and carbonate to be elevated above where they would be in the absence of magnesium."

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2003/10/chemistry#section-9

+1

MG is the element preventing ca++ and co3 from percipitating.

It's time to test magnesium again. Maybe late tonight, when I get a chance. Over the past week and a half, or so, I've slowly dosed about 1100 ml - I think the BRS calculator said I'd need about 1450 ml to get up to 1375. Thanks

 

[dzhuo]

I have definitely not done everything perfectly, though, so I bear some blame.

We all make mistakes so don't be too critical about yourself.

I know that my alk drops if I stop dosing - it has gone as low as 7 dKH before

Try to test alk again today and make a note of it. Stop dosing for a week and check alk again one week from now to see where it's at. I suspect your alk consumption is low but your test kit is fooling you to believe you need to constantly does. At the end of 1 week, you should have a better idea of where your alk will naturalize itself. You really shouldn't have to trace alk all over given the low demand.

The suggestion for making sure your Mag is ~1400 is spot on as the primary reason for a stable Mag is to avoid precipitation.

 

[sneaton]

i have a 75 gallon and i only dose 20 ml of each part of b-ionic....tank is fully stocked with growing sps frags/colonies....you can see in my avatar.....api alk is pretty good,i tested against salifert and it was dead on....what salt mix are you using?do you dose all at once and what time of the day? maybe its percipitating

 

[iwishtofish]

We all make mistakes so don't be too critical about yourself.

Ok, thanks.

Try to test alk again today and make a note of it. Stop dosing for a week and check alk again one week from now to see where it's at. I suspect your alk consumption is low but your test kit is fooling you to believe you need to constantly does. At the end of 1 week, you should have a better idea of where your alk will naturalize itself. You really shouldn't have to trace alk all over given the low demand.

If it does drop significantly (like from 9 to 7), will that have an adverse effect on my LPS? Lot of money in those...

The suggestion for making sure your Mag is ~1400 is spot on as the primary reason for a stable Mag is to avoid precipitation.

I'll test both alk and magnesium this evening.

i have a 75 gallon and i only dose 20 ml of each part of b-ionic....tank is fully stocked with growing sps frags/colonies....you can see in my avatar.....api alk is pretty good,i tested against salifert and it was dead on....what salt mix are you using?do you dose all at once and what time of the day? maybe its percipitating

I haven't seen any signs of precipitation...wouldn't it coat things like my heater? I split the alk dose. Half in the morning, and half in the evening. I don't drip it, but I try to pour it in slowly, time permitting.

 

[dzhuo]

If it does drop significantly (like from 9 to 7), will that have an adverse effect on my LPS? Lot of money in those...

I don't think it will. I just don't see (from your description) how the kind of grow rate or corals you have justify the demand. You are dosing roughly 60ml (or less) a day which should only affect 0.4 dKH so it doesn't add up to the 8 dKH to 9 dKH swing. Even if you add all 60ml at the same time, it wouldn't be able to bring your alk up that much. This leads me to believe your numbers are not accurate and your are measuring the affect of the dose; not consumption. If you let alone your tank for 5 or 7 days, you should have a better idea of where alk naturally falls. Once you have determine that, you can easily average out the daily dosage. It's far better to maintain alk this way other than trying to fight it higher or lower. If you are concern, just pay extra attention to your corals during this no dose period.