Hawaii's new aquarium fishing regulations

[AquaKnight]

Brick and mortar store owners, for the most part, know what size tank their customers have. It should be the responsibility of the owner and customer. Do you find drug dealers at fault or the people buying the drugs?

I feel both parties are at fault, the problem is that most people are not online like us. Most people go to the fish store for advise, so if an owner tells them it ok, then to them, its ok.

I'm not saying they shouldn't research, obviously, I think they should but the fact of the matter is, they don't.

The person who bought the drugs. The drug dealer is only at fault for distributing illegal narcotics. Someone kills someone else with a hammer he bought at homedepot the day before. Is the pimply faced teen-aged cashier who sold him the hammer, at fault for anything?

Though I think we're on about the same page. I have no problems with stores taking a more proactive role with their customers, but on the same token, if someone wants a fish, and they simply bag it and say have a nice day, I'm fine with that too. However if a customer points a Moorish Idol and asks if that would be okay in their nano, and the guy says, "yea sure, 2 would be even better," that I have serious issue with. Though these places are businesses and if someone wants a smaller tang for their 40gal breeder, it's not the end of the world. I just see it slightly wrong that LFS's are always held to the T, yet anyone can buy a 10" Naso for their 29gal, from an online retailer, and yet in the same breathe of someone chastising a LFS, they don't mention online as well. (not that I'm implying either need to be chastised.)


About price, the fish are about right IMO. For anyone that thinks everyone that walks into the LFS are rich, go look at some statistics on national income levels. When saltwater fish are $40-$300, and freshwater fish on the other side of the store are $3-$10, I know what the unsure customer will buy. However when some of these ridiculous sales happen, $9 Hippo tangs, one can only imagine how many would have not been sentenced to death if they were priced higher.

We can also talk about certain species of fish. One could only imagine if Moorish Idols, Rock Beauty Angelfish, Sweetlips, etc were the high dollar fish, instead of the $39 they typically are... How many beginners would see a $150 Moorish Idol, and not risk that kind of money.

 

[M88A2]

Aqua, im not sure if u were refering to me when u said "For anyone that thinks everyone that walks into the LFS are rich, go look at some statistics on national income levels", but i most certainly am not rich. no one gets rich as an elisted in the army. anyway i dont think the most important fact is being addressed in what you've said. holding a high price on certain fish would probably keep the "ignorant" and less financially stable ppl away but it takes care of only a small group of people while penalizing those who are well informed and are still on a moderately strict budget. it would not keep away johny armed with dady's trust fund. you did however touch on the essencial problem which is some people are unsure due to the fact that they dont know and understand the needs of what ever it is they want. It really is up to the people who sell and purchase the animals. raising the price doesnt seem like a very good way of dealing with the issue.

 

[AquaKnight]

Aqua, im not sure if u were refering to me when u said "For anyone that thinks everyone that walks into the LFS are rich, go look at some statistics on national income levels", but i most certainly am not rich. no one gets rich as an elisted in the army. anyway i dont think the most important fact is being addressed in what you've said. holding a high price on certain fish would probably keep the "ignorant" and less financially stable ppl away but it takes care of only a small group of people while penalizing those who are well informed and are still on a moderately strict budget. it would not keep away johny armed with dady's trust fund. you did however touch on the essencial problem which is some people are unsure due to the fact that they dont know and understand the needs of what ever it is they want. It really is up to the people who sell and purchase the animals. raising the price doesnt seem like a very good way of dealing with the issue.

Yea, I was referring to your previous post with the latter part of mine. However rereading my post, I don't think I got what I meant across successfully.

When you said;

"Arent people who would just go and buy whatever, when ever, and how many they felt like more likely to be rich or well off?"

I took that to mean anyone who's gone into an LFS, to buy whatever they what, with zero research, was rich. What I meant by the "go look at statistics" was that I can't believe there are that many people out there with Daddy's CC, buying whatever they want. I've certainly seen some people scrape together X amount of money, and just to go buy whatever they want. One of my other hobbies is radio control aircraft, jets specifically. Our forums are littered (gross overstatement) with people who never flown a plane before, but yet save up hundreds/thousands of dollars on for that plane they definitely aren't prepared for, but "want so bad." Only to crash it to smithereens their first flight.

To relate to this hobby I've definitely seen people who are not rich, waste money. I remember someone buying a gorgeous Saddleback Butterfly, talked to him for a bit, it was going into his 40gal, CC substrate, a hangon filter, some coral skeletons :sad2:.

I do see where your coming off about reefers on a limited budget, and for the most part agree. I think I'm stuck on a few examples, that mostly wrap around requirements. When I see Naso sp. or Clown tangs "on sale" for $29.99, I shutter a little bit. The reefer who has the multiple hundred of gallons of aquarium needed for these guys, I can't believe is scraping by. The guy that is managing a 75gal and see them on sale and says "oh look" on the otherhand...

 

[saltn07]

Im not sure what but something needs to be done, when I first seen the pic at the start of the video I was horrified. How often does this stuff happen... Its everyones responsibility from LFS owners to customers to suppliers and harvester.

 

[Blakeup295]

i think catching fish is ok i mean theres alot of people out there that keep there fish really happy but then again tons a fish die in tanks everyday but for catching fish there should deff be a limit to what u can get and what kinds, just like if i go stream fishing for trout i can only get i think it was 6 fish per person somthing in that area

 

[alton]

In the late 90's the government talked about starting a permit system for saltwater fish. It was similer to duck hunting where the more rare a fish the higher in points it maybe. Example: buy a license to buy fish at your local store, with out it and you could not buy saltwater fish, an adult imperator may be a 100 points so for the rest of the year you could not buy a fish. Once again sounds good on the surface but a rich person could just get others to get there license and pay them cash. Every law has a loop hole. Look at the war on drugs!

 

[Sardaukar]

It's always interesting to me that 600 dead yellow tangs is a tragedy that enrages environmentalists, but untold millions of other fish being harvested for food barely elicits a response. Is it just unfortunate luck to be born a drab and tasty mackerel instead of a fun, colorful yellow tang?

 

[NanoDog]

I think we are missing the big point here....THIS IS THE COST OF THIS HOBBY TO THE FISH!

We can all flex our muscles and boast how great a reef keeper we are but the bottom line is the supply line of getting the fish to our tanks has always resulted in a high mortality. The minute these creatures are removed from the ocean they are destined for an unnatural death.

When are we going to face the truth and accept this? It doesn't matter if you are the world's greatest reef keeper. Participation in this hobby perpetuates this. Newbies stare at your great reefs and decide to get into it. How many critters did YOU lose along the way to becoming the great and righteous reefer that you are now?

This is a great hobby that comes with baggage that is all of our responsibility. I'm sure that the outrage over the video will do nothing more than convince the collectors to put their dead stock down the garbage disposal and destroy the evidence.

 

[Sardaukar]

The marine aquarium industry is always going to take a lot of heat because it has a much smaller lobby and does not have the financial muscle or pull of other industries that are much more damaging to reefs.

 

[eskymick]

I think we are missing the big point here....THIS IS THE COST OF THIS HOBBY TO THE FISH!

We can all flex our muscles and boast how great a reef keeper we are but the bottom line is the supply line of getting the fish to our tanks has always resulted in a high mortality. The minute these creatures are removed from the ocean they are destined for an unnatural death.

When are we going to face the truth and accept this? It doesn't matter if you are the world's greatest reef keeper. Participation in this hobby perpetuates this. Newbies stare at your great reefs and decide to get into it. How many critters did YOU lose along the way to becoming the great and righteous reefer that you are now?

This is a great hobby that comes with baggage that is all of our responsibility. I'm sure that the outrage over the video will do nothing more than convince the collectors to put their dead stock down the garbage disposal and destroy the evidence.

+1. Well said!!

Those supporting outrageous pricing of marine tropicals are simply encouraging governments to further their efforts to control people's behaviors through increased taxation, tariffs and fees. Certainly we must have realized by now, that it is getting to the point where there is no end to it.

 

[dcombs44]

The outrage over the hobby is similar to that of sport hunters. Particularly in the states, the % of animals that die from hunting is irrelevant compared to the deaths caused by deforestation and overcrowding of natural habitats.

I think the same goes for the marine aquaria hobby. We have an affect on the population, but it is immaterial compared to the destruction caused by pollution, climate change, etc.

Just my opinion.....and since many of the animals we purchase don't come from this country's waters, it would be difficult to restrict the collection limits surrounding the animals in the hobby. I do know that there are restrictions in the waters off of Florida, and I'm assuming the same goes for Hawaii and other US owned areas.

 

[slapshot]

The outrage over the hobby is similar to that of sport hunters. Particularly in the states, the % of animals that die from hunting is irrelevant compared to the deaths caused by deforestation and overcrowding of natural habitats.

I think the same goes for the marine aquaria hobby. We have an affect on the population, but it is immaterial compared to the destruction caused by pollution, climate change, etc.

Just my opinion.....and since many of the animals we purchase don't come from this country's waters, it would be difficult to restrict the collection limits surrounding the animals in the hobby. I do know that there are restrictions in the waters off of Florida, and I'm assuming the same goes for Hawaii and other US owned areas.

Don't forget overfishing! I have had this conversation with my Aunt who lives on Kona. The number of needless deaths from our hobby pales in comparision to the numbers by our mass fishing techniques. The trollers lay out 30 miles of line....thirty miles for swordfish. Anything else they catch.... toss it back. Most die or are dead. Thousands and thousands of sharks and under sized swords. Funny, they can't keep them because they are to small but they are already almost or dead when they toss them back after being on a hook for a day or so.

This hobby does not have much to be proud about. The oil wasted to ship and catch the fish, the amount of reef distruction from chiseling the reef apart, the spraying the reef with cynide. I get it and diplore it, but to get in a huff about a bunch of dead tangs when so many more are wasted by runnoff, pollution, or overfishing is really like trying to stop the rain with an umbrella in a hurricane.

Again, I know that this hobby exacts a tremendious toll but lets also not forget that the natural life span for the average yellow tank is barely over a year in the wild. That being said I have no issue with requiring a license to buy animals. I hate the Government controlling one more thing in my life but really this hobby requires special knowledge. Learning the hard way isn't really required any longer. The information is available.

 

[slapshot]

Nooo not yet another person who thinks collectors use/used dynamite to collect MO fish. It's not true, sorry. They use that for collecting food fish The fish the get stunned also hemorrhage on the side facing the blast

Cn like Bill said is still in use. Some feel more so now then ever. back in the day it was localized to PI. Now it's in Indo, Bali & Vietnam to a big degree. Many feel Indo is a far worse offender then PI. At least PI has been making efforts since the issue was raised in the early 80's by Steve Robinson.

No no, I know they don't use it for collection, I speaking more of the damaging ways of fishing not just collecting. Sorry I was a little vague there.

 

[dcombs44]

Licensing for ownership may not be a bad idea to be honest. These are exotic animals that require somewhat specialized care. Plus, they are a part of a very fragile ecosystem. Having a way to limit and monitor the way that they are pulled out of the ocean may limit some of the haphazard purchase and treatment of them.

Make it like hunter safety course. You can't own them until you're "educated". I suppose that'd be better than the alternative of banning collection for the hobby.

 

[808Rob]

It seems to me that no matter how we may have mixed feelings about the hobby, the wholesaler, or the regulating authority, it always takes away from the reason why we are all in this, which is the beauty of the marine aquarium. The hobbyist will buy the fish, the wholesaler will try to make money off of the hobbyist, and the regulating authority will try to make money off of the wholesaler or penalize everyone because someone's complaining. Why can't we all just get along..........

 

[cuteus51]

I think we are missing the big point here....THIS IS THE COST OF THIS HOBBY TO THE FISH!

We can all flex our muscles and boast how great a reef keeper we are but the bottom line is the supply line of getting the fish to our tanks has always resulted in a high mortality.
"The minute these creatures are removed from the ocean they are destined for an unnatural death." Exactly, well said! And some scientists are now discovering that some fish die off even if they are released back into the water, it is called delayed mortality. Who really knows how many dead individuals that encompasses?

"When are we going to face the truth and accept this? It doesn't matter if you are the world's greatest reef keeper. Participation in this hobby perpetuates this. Newbies stare at your great reefs and decide to get into it. How many critters did YOU lose along the way to becoming the great and righteous reefer that you are now?"
And now we have a new "reality" show that will probably increase the demand and damage from this "hobby"

"This is a great hobby that comes with baggage that is all of our responsibility. I'm sure that the outrage over the video will do nothing more than convince the collectors to put their dead stock down the garbage disposal and destroy the evidence.

"
Sad but true. If we are so fond of the colors and liveliness of the fish and coral reefs, let's go snorkeling, responsibly. Too much in this country is for the instant gratification and what the I wants, and demanding that s/he has the right to this hobby. If we love the saltwater life so much, let's leave it for the creatures that need the fish and coral to survive and reproduce. Let's watch and not catch. Is this a sustainable hobby? If hundreds of thousands of people all over the world are looking for coral and fish? Stop buying, if you really love the ocean. I am sure that many aquarium keepers can rationalize their hobby...and continue on.

 

[dntstlthareefer]

crazy