Help Calculating Alk dose from Kalk

[Psyops]

I have been dosing Kalk at 1 tsp/gallon for the past 3 months via ATO at 2 gallons of Topoff per day. My kalk levels have been extremely consistent at 8.3 the whole time. The problem is that I don't have a large sps load yet. They are small frags at this point. I did recently add a large 6-7 inch clam last week. My calcium levels have been slowly creeping up. It started at around 440 and now they are at 490-500. Should I decrease the kalk to 1/2 tsp/gallon or stop kalk for now and just dose alk solution B-ionic (I have it from another system) until my calcium numbers go back to normal? If so, how
much should I do when I add around 10 grams of kalk to my system per day?

My total tank volume is 200 gallons.

The carbonate dose for B-ionic is 1 ml/gallon of B-ionic will raise alkalinity by 0.74 meq/liter (2.07dkH). Hope this helps.

Alex

 

[vbsaltydog]

I would add some calcareous frags to consume the excess Ca. Since all of the other numbers are steady.

 

[bertoni]

I'd probably just let the tank go and see what the clam does to the consumption level. That calcium level is well within the safe range, IMO.

 

[Psyops]

I would add some calcareous frags to consume the excess Ca. Since all of the other numbers are steady.

Which ones are you suggesting? I do have some sps frags. My montis are growing faster even at the lower alk. As Bertoni suggested I am curious how much calcium my new clam will absorb. I also added some calcium requiring macroalgae in my refugium tank.

That's what is was thinking about Bertoni but I kind of wanted a more experienced reefer to chyme in. Thanks guys for your advice. For now I will stay in holing pattern.

At what calcium level should I start taking action?

 

[vbsaltydog]

Which ones are you suggesting?

Anything that is calcareous and grows quickly. Birdsnest comes to mind.

 

[Southreef]

I am experiencing almost the same thing. All parameters are good but the Ca keeps creeping higher. I have an explosion of coraline and excellent growth on my frags but also wonder what is the dangerously high level of Ca?

Salinity 1.025
Ph 7.9
Alk 8.0
Mag. 1320
Ca 500

Don't mean to highjack, just looking for the same info.

 

[vbsaltydog]

Alk decreases as a result of acids being produced. All living organisms in the tank create acids in the form of waste. This includes microscopic bacteria, algae, etc. There is also breaking down uneaten food, etc.

Ca only decreases by two events, calcareous animals converting Ca into skeletal structure and water changes.

Dosing Kalk is adding Alk to offset the acid that all metabolic events create which is why the Alk is holding steady but Kalk also adds Ca and your calcareous animals are not consuming enough Ca which is why your Ca levels are increasing while your Alk levels are not.

You either need to increase the load on the Ca demand by getting more calcareous animals or you need to reduce the amount of Kalk being dosed and supplement with 2 part.

You will actually be switching from Kalk to 2 part so you can add more Alk than Ca and you will be supplementing the 2 part with Kalk in the top off water.

You would use Kalk to supplement the 2 part because Kalk is cheaper than 2 part if you use Mrs. Wages Pickling Lime.

Also because Kalk is dosed all day by the ATO vs. 2 part that is generally dosed as Ca in the AM and Alk in the PM.

By supplementing the 2 part with Kalk in the ATO, you hold the Ca/Alk levels more stable throughout the 24 hour cycle.

The Alk part of 2 part is dosed at night, right around when your lights turn off, because Alk raises the pH to offset the pH drop that occurs at night when photosynthesis ceases to convert C02 to Oxygen.

 

[vbsaltydog]

I am experiencing almost the same thing. All parameters are good but the Ca keeps creeping higher. I have an explosion of coraline and excellent growth on my frags but also wonder what is the dangerously high level of Ca?

Salinity 1.025
Ph 7.9
Alk 8.0
Mag. 1320
Ca 500

Don't mean to highjack, just looking for the same info.

I recommend a pH closer to 8.4 and Alk closer to 9

 

[HighlandReefer]

I have been dosing Kalk at 1 tsp/gallon for the past 3 months via ATO at 2 gallons of Topoff per day. My kalk levels have been extremely consistent at 8.3 the whole time. The problem is that I don't have a large sps load yet. They are small frags at this point. I did recently add a large 6-7 inch clam last week. My calcium levels have been slowly creeping up. It started at around 440 and now they are at 490-500. Should I decrease the kalk to 1/2 tsp/gallon or stop kalk for now and just dose alk solution B-ionic (I have it from another system) until my calcium numbers go back to normal? If so, how
much should I do when I add around 10 grams of kalk to my system per day?

My total tank volume is 200 gallons.

The carbonate dose for B-ionic is 1 ml/gallon of B-ionic will raise alkalinity by 0.74 meq/liter (2.07dkH). Hope this helps.

Alex

Using kalk water or reactors will supply alk and calcium at the same rate that the tank occupants use them. If you use a salt mix that is high in calcium, this is not balanced for using kalk water. With water changes your calcium level will slowly creep up close to the salt mix level over time. One solution is to use a salt mix that contains a calcium level closer to what you want to maintain. The other which has been stated is to switch to using two-part where you can use less calcium supplement than the alk supplement. This offsets the inbalance of your salt mix.


Which salt mix are you using?

 

[HighlandReefer]

FWIW, many hobbyists use Oceanic which has a calcium content around 580 ppm per Billy's tests & this doesn't seem to cause problems.

 

[Psyops]

FWIW, many hobbyists use Oceanic which has a calcium content around 580 ppm per Billy's tests & this doesn't seem to cause problems.

I am using IO salt mix. I do have a bucket of Tropic Marine that has a lower calcium level. I will probably do that. Is that a type-O with 580 ppm? Maybe you meant 380 ppm? I know I will eventually go to 2 part. I really like the kalk for a lot of reasons you guys already have mentioned. HighlandReefer, I think I understand about 580 ppm of calcium if it is not a type-o. My levels can go higher safely.

Maybe Disc1 can chyme in with the calculation from kalk to alk 2 part mix. I am curious how much alk my system is actually using.

vbsaltydog: I do have 4 birdsnest growing very quickly. Thanks for the input.
Again, thank you for all your input guys.
Alex

 

[Psyops]

I am experiencing almost the same thing. All parameters are good but the Ca keeps creeping higher. I have an explosion of coraline and excellent growth on my frags but also wonder what is the dangerously high level of Ca?

Salinity 1.025
Ph 7.9
Alk 8.0
Mag. 1320
Ca 500

Don't mean to highjack, just looking for the same info.

Don't worry about it. Go to the chemistry forum. The top sticky has a bunch of salt mixes and their contents. Bertoni did a lot of work on them. Use one that you think will be good for your system. I was just curious what others thought about this specific situation, since I only have a year's experience with sps.

 

[HighlandReefer]

Bill's tests from his thread: Not a typo.

Oceanic

calcium: 580 ppm
alk 8.5
Mag: 1650

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For a 200 gal total water volume system that uses 2 gals of 1/2 saturated kalk water ( 1 teaspoon/gallon) you are using about 0.6 dKH of alkalinity per day.

Since your calcium salt mix is not high, than you must have added a calcium supplement at one point or used higher calcium salt mix at one point to get the calcium that high compared to your alk level. You can stop dosing all sources of alk including two-part alk, reactors and kalk water until your calcium level drops to where you want it. You will need to dose two-part alk to maintain it only. Once your calcium drops then resume dosing with kalk water to maintain your alk level and calcium should follow suite.

 

[Psyops]

Thanks Highland for the calculation. I will be adding alk only to my topoff until the calcium levels drop. It looks like about 30 mls per gallon of B-ionic.

Maybe I should check the calcium levels of my IO salt mix. Maybe it's higher than stated.

 

[HighlandReefer]

You're welcome.

Checking the salt mix parameters is always a good idea for every new container you buy. Occasional reports of bad batches do crop up.

 

[Psyops]

You're welcome.

Checking the salt mix parameters is always a good idea for every new container you buy. Occasional reports of bad batches do crop up.

A very good point. I'll keep that in mind.

 

[Psyops]

I just received my Hanna alk checker in the mail this weekend. I found out that my alk is actually 10.6 instead of the 8.3 that I was getting on my Salifert test. This makes sense. Since my calcium is slowly creeping up then should my alk with kalk dosing. I have also noticed that my montis are growing at a much faster rate. I also used my alk standard supplied by the Salifert test to check the accuracy of my hanna meter. It was 7.3 dkH. It seemed to be pretty accurate. I basically was adding too much kalk. I guess don't add anything until the values drop to normal range and then add 1/2 tsp/gal instead of 1 tsp. I don't know much about the hanna alk meter, but I figured to give it a try since my other hanna meters seemed to be accurate. Let me know if I missed anything.

 

[bertoni]

Actually, Billybeau1 did the salt tests, not me. I just edited the results.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Calcium can slowly creep up using limewater only. The reason is that it supplies Calcium and alk in the exact ratio in pure calcium carbonate. But the calcium carbonated deposited from seawater has some of the calcium replaced by magnesium. So assuming you use up all the alk added each day, some extra calcium remains. That will boost calcium over time, but water changes usually override such effects before they become a problem.

As mentioned, other things also deplete alk ( such as increases in nitrate) and those too can boost calcium in the long run when using limewater.

 

[Psyops]

Calcium can slowly creep up using limewater only. The reason is that it supplies Calcium and alk in the exact ratio in pure calcium carbonate. But the calcium carbonated deposited from seawater has some of the calcium replaced by magnesium. So assuming you use up all the alk added each day, some extra calcium remains. That will boost calcium over time, but water changes usually override such effects before they become a problem.

As mentioned, other things also deplete alk ( such as increases in nitrate) and those too can boost calcium in the long run when using limewater.

Thanks Randy. My nitrates are around 2.8-3 ppm consistently (Hanna). Is this a problem? I have no problem with two part dosing, just wanted to learn what is the dinamycs with kalk and calcium/alk in aquariums. I do around 10% water change per week. Although I am using IO Reef cystals.

I tested my system this morning. Alk 9.7dkH and calcium 470 ppm. A few days ago kh was 10.3 and last week calcium was 500 ppm. I seems to me that two part dosing is the way for my system.