Help Coral Blisters??
- Thread starter spykes
- Start date
Ted_C
Active member
I dose 100 ml of Ca and Alk and 25 ml of Mg (Randy's two part Rec A - chemicals from BRS) in my 165 total system volume system throughout the day. I've been seeing this since August.
Thanks Acronic. While I appreciate your opinion, there are many anectoctal causes of this problem from lighting to salinity to pests to viruses to cancer to Mg levels. These effects just continue to occur no matter what I do when it comes to the stability of the tank.
I have so many things that I could attribute this to:
-4 keyhole limpets were in the display tank - never knew what they were or that they may eat Xooanlthlae
-an Infestation of Vermetid Snails that I brought in in february. never knew what they were or that they can irritate SPS to death.
-Brought in Aiptasia on my one piece of live rock - knew what they were and tried everything documented to eradicate them:Laser, Kalk Paste, Copperband, Peppermint Shrimp, Aiptasia-X and now on to Bergia. It's everywhere in the sump and the display.
-Added a UV Sterilizer to the return plumbing (through a mag 18). That could have changed the parameters of algae growth in the display tank - cuasing the limpets or vermetid or crabs to start going after the acros.
-Changed my LED light cycle from 13 hours to 9 hours.
-Changed my LED light mix to drop warm and cool white to 15%
-Swapped out my sump due to mechanical issues
-switched salts (via water changes) so many times: From IORC to RSCP back to IORC to RS Normal to ESV B-ionic.
-Using red slime remover for a severe outbreak of cyano
-So many floods. two floods since july with one of them affecting the salinity in the tank.
-Heck, it could even be the way I feed that's causing this. I turn off all the pumps and skimmers when I feed for five minutes.
-Added a Blue Squamosa clam without quarantine
-Added all SPS without quarantine
neuro
the cat did it
hmm maybe it's time to measure my calc and mag.
@psionicdragon - i'm only dosing calc and alk. i haven't actually checked these values in a long time. i should probably check my mag values too.
i haven't checked recently because everything has been measured and set a long time ago.
Ted_C
Active member
Apex controller, BRS dosers, BRS chemicals. I have it dosing Ca at the top of the hour, Alk at 15 minutes, and Mg at 30 minutes. The duration of Ca is something like 2 minutes as is Alk. Mg is 15 seconds I think. The frequency of water changes (Every two to three weeks) and the volume of the change (30%) is what's really controlling the parameters. In my opinion, all the dosing is doing is allowing my Clam and Vermetid to grow - it's not really going to the corals at all.
Limpets have been removed for four weeks now.
I agree that no one thing in my list of problems or others observations are causing this (allthough switching salts was not a good idea) Honestly, I think the whole darn tank caught a microbe, internal parasite or some communicable virus.
This is certainly not short term a problem and that list of things all occured over a 6 month time frame (its from another thread I have thinking about starting over).
If I had to put a timeframe down when this all started - I would say I started seeing issues in June - around the time I added a bellus angel to the tank - the millipora lost it's polyp extension and a blue staghorn and a blue enchinata (SPS) started bleaching and died off. I didn't really think I was having issues at that point - sometimes corals die.
In August, after all of these events took place (and specifically shortening my photoperiod and lowering the white output of my LEDs from 30% to 15% and adding the UV), that's when this blistering and lose of tissue really started accelerating.
On 8/7 my Montipora Undata looked like this:
on 8/17 it looked like this:
I originally attributed this specific damage to a vermetid snail and it's mucus net rubbing across the montipora. I even contacts Jeff Shima - the author of the study he did on Vermetids and he aggreed the damage looked consistent with vermetids. It just happened so fast. I am now thinking it was something else.
A Purple Tort on 8/7:
and again on 9/3:
Limpets have been removed for four weeks now.
I agree that no one thing in my list of problems or others observations are causing this (allthough switching salts was not a good idea) Honestly, I think the whole darn tank caught a microbe, internal parasite or some communicable virus.
This is certainly not short term a problem and that list of things all occured over a 6 month time frame (its from another thread I have thinking about starting over).
If I had to put a timeframe down when this all started - I would say I started seeing issues in June - around the time I added a bellus angel to the tank - the millipora lost it's polyp extension and a blue staghorn and a blue enchinata (SPS) started bleaching and died off. I didn't really think I was having issues at that point - sometimes corals die.
In August, after all of these events took place (and specifically shortening my photoperiod and lowering the white output of my LEDs from 30% to 15% and adding the UV), that's when this blistering and lose of tissue really started accelerating.
On 8/7 my Montipora Undata looked like this:
on 8/17 it looked like this:
I originally attributed this specific damage to a vermetid snail and it's mucus net rubbing across the montipora. I even contacts Jeff Shima - the author of the study he did on Vermetids and he aggreed the damage looked consistent with vermetids. It just happened so fast. I am now thinking it was something else.
A Purple Tort on 8/7:
and again on 9/3:
Psionicdragon
New member
the usual cause in the past was VSV. But what the other poster said about imbalance could be accurate.
Anyway, there was never a definitive answer in the past.
Something is irritating your corals. First I would use carbon/purigen combo. Lower the led as they are laser beams and basically torches your corals. Keep things stable and why are you dosing mag....have you test it?
Also, looks like you have flatworms...but it could be a spec of something or another.
Anyway, there was never a definitive answer in the past.
Something is irritating your corals. First I would use carbon/purigen combo. Lower the led as they are laser beams and basically torches your corals. Keep things stable and why are you dosing mag....have you test it?
Also, looks like you have flatworms...but it could be a spec of something or another.
Psionicdragon
New member
mag is usually not an issue unless you have an imbalance with alk/cal. From my experience of the blisters, as i mention to you neuro in pm, was VSV. Once I stopped VSV then the blisters went away. I believe the corals were overeating the bacteria that formed.
Although, I was dosing a lot of VSV since I had 60 fishes with sps.
Ted_C
Active member
Thanks for the suggestions to all.
FYI - I dose nothing but Ca, Alk, and Mg. No Biopellets, no Zeo, no Carbon (vinegar, vodka, etc). I run ROX Carbon 24x7 changed out every two weeks (after the BRS deluxe reactor clogs up) and run GFO 24x7 changed out every 5 weeks. I skim Wet with a RO Diablo XS225.
I talked to my LFS last night and he had a good suggestion - I started running filter socks and a UV in the beginning of August. Maybe I clarified my water so much that I'm frying these corals (even with the reduced whites and shorter photoperiod). I never did drop intensities. I only increased them slowly from 65% to 75% over the last two months.
My Nitrates went from undectable to 2 to 4 PPM over the course of two months after I installed my UV sterilizer and started running filter socks. There's a couple possible reasons for that:
- I'm killing some of the bacteria in the nitrogen cycle
- I'm killing the "stuff" that would grow Algae in the display (true - glass cleanings are less frequent)
- The filter socks have become nitrate factories (not likely with a daily changeout and cleaning).
I do like the idea of filter socks so I will continue to run them - changing them out once per day. I have dropped my intensities on my pac sun tritons (r2 - 145W) from 75% to 60%. I'm thinking of taking my UV offline or at the very least - replumbing it so it recirculates in the sump instead of running 100% of the return through it.
FYI - I dose nothing but Ca, Alk, and Mg. No Biopellets, no Zeo, no Carbon (vinegar, vodka, etc). I run ROX Carbon 24x7 changed out every two weeks (after the BRS deluxe reactor clogs up) and run GFO 24x7 changed out every 5 weeks. I skim Wet with a RO Diablo XS225.
I talked to my LFS last night and he had a good suggestion - I started running filter socks and a UV in the beginning of August. Maybe I clarified my water so much that I'm frying these corals (even with the reduced whites and shorter photoperiod). I never did drop intensities. I only increased them slowly from 65% to 75% over the last two months.
My Nitrates went from undectable to 2 to 4 PPM over the course of two months after I installed my UV sterilizer and started running filter socks. There's a couple possible reasons for that:
- I'm killing some of the bacteria in the nitrogen cycle
- I'm killing the "stuff" that would grow Algae in the display (true - glass cleanings are less frequent)
- The filter socks have become nitrate factories (not likely with a daily changeout and cleaning).
I do like the idea of filter socks so I will continue to run them - changing them out once per day. I have dropped my intensities on my pac sun tritons (r2 - 145W) from 75% to 60%. I'm thinking of taking my UV offline or at the very least - replumbing it so it recirculates in the sump instead of running 100% of the return through it.
I don't think the mag and cal were cause of that, I always keep my mag about 1500+ and ca about 400. it's just random event, it happen to 6 pieces of the corals(all over the tank, not just isolated part of the tank) green slimmer/O tort/rose milli/20k/tricolor/gomezi. funny thing is only one of the green slimmer was having issue not the other. they were not close. also only happen to 1 milli not green or blue. 20k was dead but the 30k doing well...
T5 light, ca rx and kalk. since then I change tank and move on to 2 part. haven't have any issue yet. I don't think the ca rx is the cause.
T5 light, ca rx and kalk. since then I change tank and move on to 2 part. haven't have any issue yet. I don't think the ca rx is the cause.
Ted_C
Active member
Every tank is different. It could be Ca/Mg in my case but I doubt it. I highly suspect I'm cooking them with too much light radiation. Let me run at 60% intensity for a month and we'll see what happens.
That is one of the many things I am fastidious about. My pre-filters are changed out every 4 months or so (due to dirty 300 PPM city tap water and their use of chloramines), I only buy Made in USA pre-filters, my DI is changed around once every 1.5 months (when I notice the coloration changing to a coffee color). The membrane is changed out every year or so. TDS PPM before DI is 14, TDS PPM Post DI is 0. I let the RO run for 5 minutes before I start putting water through the DI.
neuro
the cat did it
Hmm ok. I double checked alk, calc, mg and phos last night, and everything was at where I suspected them should have been--no worries on that end.
Maybe I've got bacteria growing somewhere...
Ted_C
Active member
Hi Neuro
To summarize - Since I posted onto this thread and have other threads going, I have found the following observations by other aquarists:
AEFW (I do have what appear to be bite marks on my red planet but but not on other acros - I dont know what red planet looks like when it goes - this could be entierly normal and lastly, other families of SPS are affected - Acro's, Monti's, Poccilipora, Stylophora, torts)
low pH (below 8 - could also be a factor coupled with VSV dosing)
Mg Imbalance with Ca.
VSV Dosing
Change in the amount of radiation hitting the coral (this can be any number of reasons from new lights to replacement bulbs to clarifying or scrubbing the particulate out of the water to re-aquascaping).
Generic Internal Parasites (the parasites are under the skin burrowing - causing the skin to bubble up)
Cancer (this seems to be the end result rather than the cause).
To summarize - Since I posted onto this thread and have other threads going, I have found the following observations by other aquarists:
AEFW (I do have what appear to be bite marks on my red planet but but not on other acros - I dont know what red planet looks like when it goes - this could be entierly normal and lastly, other families of SPS are affected - Acro's, Monti's, Poccilipora, Stylophora, torts)
low pH (below 8 - could also be a factor coupled with VSV dosing)
Mg Imbalance with Ca.
VSV Dosing
Change in the amount of radiation hitting the coral (this can be any number of reasons from new lights to replacement bulbs to clarifying or scrubbing the particulate out of the water to re-aquascaping).
Generic Internal Parasites (the parasites are under the skin burrowing - causing the skin to bubble up)
Cancer (this seems to be the end result rather than the cause).
SneekaPeek
New member
had this happen to many of my acros. check your alkalinity with a reference test. If your only using one type of test use another. Found that my alk was low causing this mishap. what I believe, the tissue growing faster than the calcium carbonate skeleton.
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