TampaReefer79
Premium Member
Stupid tangs? They only did what they do...because a human put them into that situation and there was nothing they could do about it. They had nowhere to go and nowhere to hide.
Help!!! Just lost about 6 fish!
- Thread starter tallreefguy
- Start date
Stupid tangs? They only did what they do...because a human put them into that situation and there was nothing they could do about it. They had nowhere to go and nowhere to hide.
Toddrtrex
Premium Member
4 gallons?? Don't feel like doing the math, but your SG had to have been above 1.030 prior to that. Did you add all 4 gallons at once?
Kahuna Tuna
Active member
You have a crazy amount of bioload in a tank that isn't even close to being mature, your tank was also running hot and this isn't going to help matters in terms of oxygen content and fish stress. Speaking of fish stress your livestock was undoubtedly stressed out with that mix in a smallish tank (your 90 has a bioload close to my 180) and your tank crashed.
I think TampaReefer gave you some excellent advice, you need to get your bioload down to a reasonable level and get some appropriate livestock before you will be able to get your system stable. Sorry about your fish but honestly your tank was a ticking time bomb.
I think TampaReefer gave you some excellent advice, you need to get your bioload down to a reasonable level and get some appropriate livestock before you will be able to get your system stable. Sorry about your fish but honestly your tank was a ticking time bomb.
This was a contributing factor at the very least. But if there was no water circulation, and the temperature rose, dissolved oxygen would be depleted quickly. The bioload, of course, would have made this critical almost immediately.
tallreefguy
New member
I doubt the "tangs" did this. Their behavior to each other was not aggressive. Food competition was not an issue. But yes, I will agree with you guys about overstocking, without a doubt.
Temperature was stable. I have incredible air circulation in the canopy. I also run 4 powerheads on a wavemaker. So there was plenty of circulation.
I highly doubt a power outage. As for oxygen, the return pump was throwing a lot of air into the display because the sump was low.
I bet it was a tank crash, plain and simple. All corals still appear to be doing well this morning
Temperature was stable. I have incredible air circulation in the canopy. I also run 4 powerheads on a wavemaker. So there was plenty of circulation.
I highly doubt a power outage. As for oxygen, the return pump was throwing a lot of air into the display because the sump was low.
I bet it was a tank crash, plain and simple. All corals still appear to be doing well this morning
TampaReefer79
Premium Member
What is a 'tank crash, plain and simple'? There was a reason that all of this happened.
anbosu
New member
This happened in another overstocked tank last year -- the guy had 80 big fish in a 240, his wife unplugged the return, and most of the fish died in a few hours. I would guess a lack of turnover lowered your oxygen levels and since you had so many fish in there they expired pretty quickly.
To give you an idea I currently have a 90 reef that has a blue eye tang, haliochoerus ornitassimus (butchered that spelling) and a couple of chromis. I may add a fish or two down the road, but your stocking list was heavy for a tank that is at least double yours.
Kahuna Tuna
Active member
+1 And it will happen again and again if you keep going down that road. When your system is teetering on the brink it simply doesn't take much to push it over the edge. Again I am really sorry about your loss.
tallreefguy
New member
I'm not disagreeing here, but I would like to state that I have, in the past, turned off the return pump for a period of 24 hours while I added cyclopeeze, coral food, etc. No signs of stress or low oxygen levels. On top of that, the return was pushing air into the aquarium, with 4 powerheads, it doesn't seem lack of dissolved O2 seems probable.
I'm not saying it didn't cause it.
Don't worry about overstocking again, this is the first (and only) time I have stocked it this heavy. Usually I keep about 5 fish in there; no more than 2 big ones (tangs, rabbitfish, etc).
I feel like I just drowned 6 of my kids....
I'm not saying it didn't cause it.
Don't worry about overstocking again, this is the first (and only) time I have stocked it this heavy. Usually I keep about 5 fish in there; no more than 2 big ones (tangs, rabbitfish, etc).
I feel like I just drowned 6 of my kids....
LargeAngels
Premium Member
In these "Sudden" death syndromes it is often a heavily stocked tank in which the oxygen was depleted, as Snorvich stated earlier, by either reduced flow or no flow at all which caused it. In a heavily stocked tank it doesn't take long. The fact that your corals are OK and many of the fish dead points towards low oxygen.
tallreefguy
New member
It's not that there wasn't ANY flow. It was still moving water through the return line. But also a lot of air. Also, I run 4 powerheads on a wavemaker (which was running) so there was flow.
That's what I'm thinking! That the return had some major role in my tank parameters changing drastically. But I must agree with LargeAngels that the Low O2 does seem very probable because corals are OK. SPS was doing just fine when I found them.
I think that must be it then - Heavy stocking with improper oxygenation (that a word??) Along with other said factors: salinity: played a role in this as well.
Complicated Issue!
Learning is not fun sometimes...
Thanks for all the input guys! Very helpful!!
Does anyone recommend an Auto Top Off System?? I'd like to get one after this incident to reduce variables that could lead to a system crash. And burning out pumps....
I can't wait to get a 200+ gallon reef going... Maybe when I grow up! (and the gf allows it...)
Here's what I use. http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/store/tunze-3155-osmolator-universal-auto-top-off.html
It's a little pricey, but it gets great reviews. I've been using it for about 7 months, and it's been very reliable. I'm sure there are less expensive ATOs that work well, but this is the only one that I've used.
It's a little pricey, but it gets great reviews. I've been using it for about 7 months, and it's been very reliable. I'm sure there are less expensive ATOs that work well, but this is the only one that I've used.
tallreefguy
New member
That actually looks like a really well built system. I like it!
My philosophy is that you get what you pay for. Thanks! I'll probably end up getting that.
My philosophy is that you get what you pay for. Thanks! I'll probably end up getting that.
just fyi - when you post flippant remarks like "stupid tangs" it makes others think that you really don't care about the reef tank at all. Maybe it's just the internet since emotions (e.g. sarcasm) does not read well.
Anyways - I also like the tunze ato.
One point to consider - you keep saying you have 4 ph's on a wavemaker. Unless they are pushing the water straight up and causing the water surface to froth, it's likely the only thing they are doing is pushing "stale" water back and forth. Is the skimmer in the sump? If so it is a big contributor to aerating a tank. That and the sheer gravity of water crashing down forces air into the water column and gets pushed back into your oxygen deprived tank. With the return not functioning, the aerated skimmer water was getting cut-off...
The ATO will definitely help but you may also want to consider a backup in case power goes out - because if you have a bioload like that again in the display, there will be another unfortunate event like this again.
Anyways - I also like the tunze ato.
One point to consider - you keep saying you have 4 ph's on a wavemaker. Unless they are pushing the water straight up and causing the water surface to froth, it's likely the only thing they are doing is pushing "stale" water back and forth. Is the skimmer in the sump? If so it is a big contributor to aerating a tank. That and the sheer gravity of water crashing down forces air into the water column and gets pushed back into your oxygen deprived tank. With the return not functioning, the aerated skimmer water was getting cut-off...
The ATO will definitely help but you may also want to consider a backup in case power goes out - because if you have a bioload like that again in the display, there will be another unfortunate event like this again.
tallreefguy
New member
The tangs comment was sarcastic. If I didn't care about them, then I probably wouldn't waste my time wondering why they're dying. At least that's what I kind of figured....
They're actually my favorite fish.
Lets see: for top water movement - I have 2 Koralia in the top middle (probably 1-1/2" down from water surface aimed at a... 30 deg. angle (guessing) for top water movement. I have another Koralia on the right side of the tank. It's aimed to move water across the tank, but due to the deflection of Koralia powerheads, some will be pushed up to the surface.
The other 2 are Maxi's - one towards the top to push water from left to right, the other down low aimed slightly upwards moving water left to right.
Also, I have a 200 CFM fan blasting the water. I originally had it 1" to 2" from the water surface, but it was splashing so much water around, I moved it about 7" up. It REALLY ripped the surface of the water. Looks good with halides! (also VERY noisy)
Yes, the skimmer is in the bottom / sump. There isn't going to be another Bioload like that in that tank. I may be dumb for putting that many in there to begin with, but lessons were learned. I love this hobby and want to make sure my livestock enjoys it as much as I do.
They're actually my favorite fish.
Lets see: for top water movement - I have 2 Koralia in the top middle (probably 1-1/2" down from water surface aimed at a... 30 deg. angle (guessing) for top water movement. I have another Koralia on the right side of the tank. It's aimed to move water across the tank, but due to the deflection of Koralia powerheads, some will be pushed up to the surface.
The other 2 are Maxi's - one towards the top to push water from left to right, the other down low aimed slightly upwards moving water left to right.
Also, I have a 200 CFM fan blasting the water. I originally had it 1" to 2" from the water surface, but it was splashing so much water around, I moved it about 7" up. It REALLY ripped the surface of the water. Looks good with halides! (also VERY noisy)
Yes, the skimmer is in the bottom / sump. There isn't going to be another Bioload like that in that tank. I may be dumb for putting that many in there to begin with, but lessons were learned. I love this hobby and want to make sure my livestock enjoys it as much as I do.
small alien
The fungus is among us.
Good job, tallreefguy. You take input very well. Good luck in the future.
Kahuna Tuna
Active member
Glad to hear that you are going to make some changes to your system, it sounds like you have the makings of a very successful system and you are addressing the problems you are facing. The top off is a crucial mod for system stability IMO and there are a lot of good ones out there. I use an ATO system and it has worked well. This simple item means your sump doesn't run dry, system water flow isn't interuppted, and the system stays a lot more stable and oxygenated.
Where are you at with the system at this point and what has survived?
Where are you at with the system at this point and what has survived?
