HELP mass SPS death.

I have noticed that the die off is slowing and I may frag some of the remaining ones if the tissue loss continues to move up. If I see that they are depositing new calcium and starting to grow again, I will leave them right where they are. If I frag them I would have to put them in my grow out under completely new lighting and flow conditions. It will be a double whammy.

I have had the rock that is in this system for over 15 years and it was kept under water for the entire move. I also tested the water every three days for the first two weeks and the water tested fine every time. I think your right and it was the change that did it.

I am using an RO unit with an add on DI unit and I am using the same source water. I am in the same town.
 
No offence Richard, but do you have any proof to back up your last statements. I doubt it, because all you can do is quote other reefers and there experiences. I have been doing this a long time and have seen tanks go through defirent algae cycles and conditions in the first years. You bodly say it does not happen and point blank you are WRONG. Happy reefing

I am not sure how you would like me to present proof of this when it is something that happens in our aquaria, not on paper. If you are looking for data on the biological processes that are involved in a cycle, that data is available all over the net. I will, however, provide a short excerpt here that explains why an "overnight cycle" is impossible:

"Nitrifying bacteria have long generation times due to the low energy yield from their oxidation reactions. Since little energy is produced from these reactions they have evolved to become extremely efficient at converting ammonia and nitrite. Scientific studies have shown that Nitrosomonas bacterium are so efficient that a single cell can convert ammonia at a rate that would require up to one million heterotrophs to accomplish. Most of their energy production (80%) is devoted to fixing CO2 via the Calvin cycle and little energy remains for growth and reproduction. As a consequence, they have a very slow reproductive rate.

Nitrifying bacteria reproduce by binary division. Under optimal conditions, Nitrosomonas may double every 7 hours and Nitrobacter every 13 hours. More realistically, they will double every 15-20 hours. This is an extremely long time considering that heterotrophic bacteria can double in as short a time as 20 minutes. In the time that it takes a single Nitrosomonas cell to double in population, a single E. Coli bacterium would have produced a population exceeding 35 trillion cells."


When a tank is showing non-detectable levels of ammonia and nitrite it is because the populations of nitrifying bacteria are at an equillibrium with the current output of ammonia into the system. In order to have a deadly spike of ammonia you first need a source, i.e. dead fish, heavy, heavy overfeeding or a loss of nitrifying bacteria. For sake of argument, even though it would be very, very improbable, we will say that when he tested the water on the morning before the "spike" it was at zero and then by that night it shot up to 1 or 2ppm. Let's also say, for example, that the bacteria were multiplying at the optimal rate to try to meet the food source. It would still take at least 7 hours for them to double in numbers and the increase of ammonia concentration is far greater than double. Even still, we will pretend that the Nitrosomonas have converted all of the ammonia overnight. You are still left with the Nitrobacter having to pick up on the presence of nitrite and catch up with those rising levels. At the very least, that would be detectable on tests. Here is a link for the above information:

http://www.bioconlabs.com/nitribactfacts.html

I have also been maintaining aquaria, both fresh and marine, since the mid eighties so am not a newcomer either. I do not simply parrot what others say on this forum as sometimes they are simply wrong or guessing themselves. If your aquaria take a full year to establish a healthy bacterial load and have multiple cycles during that time period then there is something not quite right. Detectable waste levels occur when excessive waste is put into the system or the mechanisms to remove it are debilitated. Both of those things should be fairly easy to determine the source of and control. Having a full understanding of the biological processes that exist in our tanks makes it much easier to troubleshoot issues without error. Happy reefing.
 
I have noticed that the die off is slowing and I may frag some of the remaining ones if the tissue loss continues to move up. If I see that they are depositing new calcium and starting to grow again, I will leave them right where they are. If I frag them I would have to put them in my grow out under completely new lighting and flow conditions. It will be a double whammy.

I have had the rock that is in this system for over 15 years and it was kept under water for the entire move. I also tested the water every three days for the first two weeks and the water tested fine every time. I think your right and it was the change that did it.

I am using an RO unit with an add on DI unit and I am using the same source water. I am in the same town.

Good luck and I hope things are on the upswing!
 
A new frag I had in the system is doing fine so far and The color of my remaining Acroporas are brighter. I think the worst is over with.
I will buy a new Acro frag soon to see how that does.

What is the best dip for SPS that will help prevent Red Bugs in the future? I have a lot of interceptor and can get more if needed. Is there something better to use as a dip?
 
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I for one don't think a dip will prevent all red bugs, quaratining and dipping will ensure that :D

Without quarantining you will always risk pests.
 
Possible new tank issue. I had a tank up for 5 years and it rocked, setup the new one and took a couple of months to work out some problems and balance the tank...in the process lost some of my lps sps
 
Nothing definitive, but ill add to the alk drop chorus. Sometimes our corals look great and actually do well, but one thing will set off a chain reaction. In a large colony a change of flow, change of water conditions, add in an alk swing and I could expect something bad to happen.

I'm sorry you lost such large and lovely colonies.
 
How much of your old water did you use with the new setup?

I've dipped to 6 before for a couple days and not seen die off. I don't think that's the issue.
 
It sounds like a culmination of events. The move, mass amounts of new water, change in ALK and maybe some other params, depth of corals and new lighting exposures, being taken out of the water for a move, ect.

I've had ALK go from 9-12 in 2.5 days. Everything was fine and stable. If you add too many changes in temp, alk, lighting, if you switch from country to rock and roll, your going to have issues with color or RTN/STN.
 
Ive found in my experience that alk swings that go higher the SPS tend to deal with it a lot better than alk swings that are low. Ex: 9 to 11 little change, 9 to 6 tissue recession. Usually ive noticed SPS tissue problems are associated with Alk. Other factors may have contributed to the deaths, I do recommend removing and/or fragging dying SPS as for some reason they do tend to affect the rest of the tank.

My .02
 
It sounds like a culmination of events. The move, mass amounts of new water, change in ALK and maybe some other params, depth of corals and new lighting exposures, being taken out of the water for a move, ect.

I've had ALK go from 9-12 in 2.5 days. Everything was fine and stable. If you add too many changes in temp, alk, lighting, if you switch from country to rock and roll, your going to have issues with color or RTN/STN.

+1

I agree with this likely being a combination of changes/stressors that might have been uneventful if they happened indivivdually but the combination proved too much. I would also add that, generally speaking, I have found alk jumps to be less problematic than alk drops, although neither of which bothered my acros as much as other sps.
 
What is the best dip for SPS that will help prevent Red Bugs in the future? I have a lot of interceptor and can get more if needed. Is there something better to use as a dip?[/QUOTE



The Bayer Advance Complete, it kills just about anything. But using a QT for a while is still a good idea.
 
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My refractometer was off and my hydrometer was way off. The salinity was low at 1.021-1.022... I calibrated my refractometer at my old location to test the salinity of the old system and it was off when I set up the new system.

Hopefully I can save what's left.
 
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I am not sure how you would like me to present proof of this when it is something that happens in our aquaria, not on paper. If you are looking for data on the biological processes that are involved in a cycle, that data is available all over the net. I will, however, provide a short excerpt here that explains why an "overnight cycle" is impossible:

"Nitrifying bacteria have long generation times due to the low energy yield from their oxidation reactions. Since little energy is produced from these reactions they have evolved to become extremely efficient at converting ammonia and nitrite. Scientific studies have shown that Nitrosomonas bacterium are so efficient that a single cell can convert ammonia at a rate that would require up to one million heterotrophs to accomplish. Most of their energy production (80%) is devoted to fixing CO2 via the Calvin cycle and little energy remains for growth and reproduction. As a consequence, they have a very slow reproductive rate.

Nitrifying bacteria reproduce by binary division. Under optimal conditions, Nitrosomonas may double every 7 hours and Nitrobacter every 13 hours. More realistically, they will double every 15-20 hours. This is an extremely long time considering that heterotrophic bacteria can double in as short a time as 20 minutes. In the time that it takes a single Nitrosomonas cell to double in population, a single E. Coli bacterium would have produced a population exceeding 35 trillion cells."


When a tank is showing non-detectable levels of ammonia and nitrite it is because the populations of nitrifying bacteria are at an equillibrium with the current output of ammonia into the system. In order to have a deadly spike of ammonia you first need a source, i.e. dead fish, heavy, heavy overfeeding or a loss of nitrifying bacteria. For sake of argument, even though it would be very, very improbable, we will say that when he tested the water on the morning before the "spike" it was at zero and then by that night it shot up to 1 or 2ppm. Let's also say, for example, that the bacteria were multiplying at the optimal rate to try to meet the food source. It would still take at least 7 hours for them to double in numbers and the increase of ammonia concentration is far greater than double. Even still, we will pretend that the Nitrosomonas have converted all of the ammonia overnight. You are still left with the Nitrobacter having to pick up on the presence of nitrite and catch up with those rising levels. At the very least, that would be detectable on tests. Here is a link for the above information:

http://www.bioconlabs.com/nitribactfacts.html

I have also been maintaining aquaria, both fresh and marine, since the mid eighties so am not a newcomer either. I do not simply parrot what others say on this forum as sometimes they are simply wrong or guessing themselves. If your aquaria take a full year to establish a healthy bacterial load and have multiple cycles during that time period then there is something not quite right. Detectable waste levels occur when excessive waste is put into the system or the mechanisms to remove it are debilitated. Both of those things should be fairly easy to determine the source of and control. Having a full understanding of the biological processes that exist in our tanks makes it much easier to troubleshoot issues without error. Happy reefing.

The references above are all true, but you are not taking into account other factors; namely that bacteria are not solely responsible for the uptake of unoxidized nitrogen compounds in reef aquaria. Algal uptake is significant, especially under heavy lighting regimes and even when the tank lights are off. That's not counting other photosynthetic organisms, either. Having a short, one-day spike is entirely possible if there are enough photosynthetic organisms present under the right conditions. I've done it on accident with ammonium-based fertilizer tabs and with a young, modest population of seagrasses.
 
I had my entire population of SPS bleach in a 24 hour period. A total tank crash. I still dont know what did it but I lost 5 year old colonies overnight
 
i AM GOING THREW SAME THING RIGHT NOW ALL LEVELS ARE SPOT ON AND ONE BY ONE ALL MY SPS ARE RTN FROM BOTTOM UP CANT FIGURE IT OUT
 
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