help me decide on my first tank

[rotccapt]

hi all i have been in the fresh water world for about 5 years. i curently have a 130 gallon african mbana tank and a 300 gallon sa/ca cichlid tank. soon i hope to start into the world of a reef. i love the looks of them. from the little research i have done i will be starting with LPS corals. i know the basics of a sump and how to run them becasue all my FW tanks are using them.

so i have two tanks on hand that i would like to use for my dive into my first reef. i have a 65 gallon pentagon corner tank (this is a plywood tank) and a standard 55 gallon tank that i will drill and install an overflow. for a sump i am planning on using either two 10 gallon tanks spliced together or a 29 gallon tank. all of these i already have.

i know i will need a:

skimmer
return pump (what is a good turnover rate)
power heads
lights (either led or t5)
live rock
sand
heater
test kit
refractometer

for now i will but using pre mix water from my LFS untill i can buy an ro/di unit and mix my own

so which tank would be best for my first reef tank the pentagon or the 55? i really like the shape of the pentagon so if you think i can make this work i will go that route. thanks for any help you can give me. also i know i will not be able to start the tank with corals but this is my goal

 

[PAnanoguy]

If there's any way you can get your hands on a 75 you'll be much better off IMO. Starting off with your very first reef tank with the Mind set of " this is what I have so ill just use this" is probably not the best way to start. But thats up to you. Also wait till you have your own Ro/di you will also need it for top off water.

 

[cap032]

A 55 is just too narrow for adequate rock work + good flow, IMO. I agree with the 75 suggestion. When concidering the cost of the other eqipment you will need, a few more bucks for a good tank isnt much. Get one from Pet Co when they do another dollar a gallon sale.

 

[rotccapt]

if you think a 75 is better i could turn the 55 into a 75 by making a plywood tank. i really like the looks of the pentagon though.

would it work? i have read a lot of threads on 55 gallon tanks working out. i know bigger is better to an extent when it come to a reef. i just see it as i already have the tanks and if they will work for me i can save a bit of money by using them.

my pentagon tanks is 30x30 inchs for the back and side and the front is 12x24x12 and is 20 or 24 inchs tall i dont remember

 

[PAnanoguy]

40 gallon breeder would be a good tank too. Again it would only be $40 at petco dollar/gallon sale. Also look at craigslist for some really good deals. You could get a complete setup for pennies on the dollar. Im not trying to rain on your parade but if you havent started the tank yet and are already looking for ways to do things cheaply, then you are in the wrong hobby. This is one of the most expensive hobbys out there. I know everyone wants to save some money where they can but the main tank is the last place you want to be stingy (IMO) Just want you to start out on the right foot so you are setup to succeed and not setup for failure. The homemade tanks may work fine and you are welcome to use them if you like. Im just giving you suggestions that I believe you will be even more happy with. Good luck

 

[fishgate]

The tank is the cheapest part of this hobby. I suggest using the 300 gallon cichlid tank and finding a new home for its occupants.

 

[PAnanoguy]

^^^ best idea yet!!!

 

[ahud]

Hey man,

I'm a fellow cichlid fanatic!

Don't listen to the "If your trying to save money, your in the wrong hobby" advice. I'm not sure why that is such a popular culture on this forum. Saving money is good.

I don't have much experience with plywood tanks, but the dimensions could work on that tank. The 55g can work as well, but as you know your aquascape will be limited. You can also check your local reef forums and craigslist if you want to see what else is avaliable. People exit this hobby pretty regularly, so there are often awesome deals on used equipment.

 

[PAnanoguy]

hey bud, way to misquote me and then just say the same thing I already did. Thanks

 

[PAnanoguy]

and actually, If you are "trying to save money" you definately dont want to start a reef tank. Thats like saying "I want to save money but I want to start smoking crack or doing heroine" lol Very counterproductive

also I will make an educated guess and say that about a month after you setup your first reef tank, you will wish you used the 300 gallon and will then be wondering which organs you can sell so you can go out and get an MP40 and a couple Radions. just wait and see... mwaahahaha (evil laugh)

 

[PAnanoguy]

I also do not know much about Plywood tanks. Ive seen a few builds but they were very large tanks with Fiberglass and epoxy. Could you post some pics?

 

[rotccapt]

i completely understand starting on the right foot that is the reason im researching this project. i know that this will not be a cheep endeavor. i am looking at it as if i can save a little on the tank i can use that money saved on other parts of the build.

i also do not believe that i need to buy a Cadillac to get back and forth to work if the Honda will do it just fine

here are a few pics of a 130 gallon plywood tank i am building right now. this will be for my african cichlids

 

[Down]

i also do not believe that i need to buy a Cadillac to get back and forth to work if the Honda will do it just fine

Exactly. I have several expensive hobbies but I approach every one of them with a "bang for the buck" mindset and eye on diminishing returns.

 

[rotccapt]

since i am a long ways off on this project this current 130 could be my reef tank but for now i am researching other options

 

[ahud]

You have the right idea man. I think starting out at the medium level is great.

Nice build, if I was handy I would take a shot at it. Wit that said, I'm ordering a 8'x4'x2' tank for cichlids in the next year. I absolutely love CA and SA.

hey bud, way to misquote me and then just say the same thing I already did. Thanks

Hey man, I'm sorry. I read my post and it does sound like I'm taking a shot at you, but its not what I intended.

The honda and cadilac analogy is more what I was going for.

I have done two reef setups, a 65g, a 40 breeder, and now I'm doing a 7.5g cube lol. Bigger was not better for me.

 

[rotccapt]

so after talking it over with my better half we have decided that the 130 i am currently building could be my reef tank. so with this new info, would a ruffly 52x25x24 tank be a good reef tank to start with?

the size is a bit off due to the stand that i was building the tank for. when i built the original tank i miss measured the stand and it ended up bigger than i originally planned. so now that i am building a new tank for the old stand i made the tank fit the stand.

 

[PAnanoguy]

this 130 sounds like a better option. Bigger will give you alot more wiggle room for your parameters like temp and salinity and so on. Depending on how large of a bioload you think you might go with, look for a skimmer rated for something like a 150-180 gallon tank.

 

[coralsnaked]

Ok so it sounds like you want confirmation on being able to use the 65 gal Pentagon tank. If this tank is not drilled for a sump then it surely could be easily done, and I would install an overflow box as compared to a Durso design. My question of course with either tank is do you have confidence in the tank’s durability. You will have live stock in there worth far more than the tank itself. My second question is how big of a sump can you install in the stand portion of the tank. No sump = no quality LPS tank. If you can accommodate the 29 gal for a sump then you are well on your way to success. I find corner tanks make a nice tank to stack rock in around an overflow box in the rear.

Skimmer - Reef Octopus NWB-150 rated for 100 gal

Return pump (what is a good turnover rate) 10X display or 650 gph

Power heads - LPS require a min of 20X total display turnover so if you’ve got 10X w/ return then you need another 10X w/ power head or 650gph or better yet 2 350gph

Lights (either led or t5) That’s going to be a fairly deep tank, more so than a long so you’ll need more penetration than T-5s will easily present in that footprint unless this is a short 65 corner tank,, and since you didn’t list MH as I think these penetrate deep tanks the best that leaves LED. I think the Cree 1.3 w/ a good reflector is a good benchmark. They come in at 3.9 watts conventionally rated. And for LPS you need 3 Lumens per gal so 65 gal = 195 watts total and for a deep I would up that to 250 watts or an array of 60+ Cree 1.3 diodes w/ a mix of 3 blue – 3 bright white and alternate in one red for every 6th white. The blue I would spread from 425 – 445 - 470. Be sure to consider a controller for the ballast to ramp up and down.

Live rock - 100 lbs. of deep water Tonga dry or live.
Sand - Barely cover the bottom w/ ½ inch unless you desire burrowing fish and inverts then max out at 2” of aragonite medium grain.

Heater Too many choices and only use one if you need too and do not over size it as this causes it to cycle on / off too frequently and it is the thermostat that goes out causing tank to nuke. Eheim Jäger IMO is best and Marineland Stealth the worst.

Test kit - Red Sea Pro is the only way to go

Refractometer - NSW AT from National Supply at around $50

Hope this helps and Merry Skerry

 

[rotccapt]

thank you for the info on the pentagon. i need to do more research. if i remember correctly the pentagon will measure 30x30 for the sides and the front is 12x24x12 with a height of 24 inches. it will have an internal overflow box. since i will be buuilding the stand i can design it around the 29 gallon tank.

as for lights i have not looked into the metal hallids i like the lower heat and power consumption of the led's though.

i think we will be leaning towards building up the 130 for the reef and keep the 65 for cichlids. the 130 will definatly give me more space and would give me more options as far as fish go.

 

[rotccapt]

well i think we are defiantly leaning towards the 130 as our first reef. so with that said i would like to get some opinions from you guys on equipment.

first off i have a quiet one 4000 pump that i would like to use a a return pump. at my head height i will be at about 700 gph. to make up the required flow i am looking at two Hydor Koralia Evolution 750 power heads. for a skimmer the Reef Octopus NWB-150