Help me save my Gorgonia

[williah]

I have a great looking orange Gorgonia, or she used to be.

She was in medium to high flow, her white feelers were out all the time, she seemed happy. The water parameters where all normal except Nitrate which was a little high (pH 8.2, Nitrite 0, Amm o, Nitrate .15, Ca 420, alk 3.25, Phosphates 0, Temp approx 79).

Now she is dissolving from the bottom up. Her base was about 1 inch thick, now 1/4 - 1/2 inches have dissolved away. It's almost like she's being eaten away at the base.

I read in The Reef Aquarium Vol 2 that this could be bacteria.

Has anyone experienced this? I am thinking of getting a UV Sterilizer to try and treat against bacteria. Any opinions on this or other advice?

 

[sl-atl]

Without knowing what species it is... have you done a water change recently? I have a Muricea sp. gorgonian that (I believe) is especially sensitive to trace element levels, and will start to die off... The good news is that if you fix whatever the problem is, the tissue should grow back. Moderate iodine dosing may help too.

My other guess would be that if it is a non-photosynthetic species and you are not feeding it, then that might be the problem. Good luck!

 

[clockman]

"Orange color w/ white feather polyps" That description says it all. You have a nonphotosynthetic gorgonian that needs to be fed at least once a week (maybe more) with cyclops or something similar.

 

[williah]

Sorry for not responding sooner. Thanks for the replies. I keep my tank well fed. I use ReefNutrition PhylopFeast, but I've just started using Cyclopeeze once a week so hopefully it will help.

Nice thing is it doesn't appear to have gotten worse. I'll post picks soon (getting a new camera). Unfortunately the "white feather polyps" haven't been out in a while (1-2 weeks).

 

[sl-atl]

Are you dosing iodine? I don't keep any non-photosynthetic species, but am convinced that supplementation is of value to those that I do keep.

 

[coralnut99]

Without a picture this is tough. But my guess is this is a non-photo carribean species. If I'm correct, you might recall that polyps would retract whenever it came under full illumination. It's a nocturnal feeder, and your best bet is to alter your photo-period to include just actinics for a period before and after your main lighting goes on. You should see some polyp extension under just actinics and that would be the time to try target feeding. Again, knowing the species is a big factor here.

 

[reefkeeper2]

There are three "most likely" possibilities I can think of. The first is lack of iodine supplementation . In my experience, low iodine levels can cause a "dissolving" of the tissue. Second is that it could be starving to death and needs to be fed more. I feed mine twice daily. Third is your specific gravity could be off. So, dose some iodine (carefully and don't overdose) feed more, and check your specific gravity.
Good luck!

 

[craab]

When you feed with PhylopFeast, do you see the polyps grabbing pieces of food suspended in the water column? The polyps will some what 'ball up' when they are eating. You may want to try some other foods and target feed much more often. I have a similiar gorgonia, forgive but I do not keep the scientific name handy. I generally target feed two to three times a day with a mixture of foods, but always see good results with ESV Spray-Dried Phytoplankton.

Also, I second the comment about iodine being low and tissue decay. When was the last time you did a water change?

 

[Putawaywet]

Skip the UV as it's not going to do much good for your gorg at this point.

Also, phyto is an inappropriate food source for gorgonia as it's too dang small. Take a second and look at those polyps... they are designed for active feeding, they're looking for something to grab a hold of. Their size is a good indication of the size and type of food they will accept. I would stick with the likes of cyclopseeze, oyster eggs, zooplankton, etc., and target feed as often as your water quality will allow.

You might try setting up some kind of drip system upstream of your water flow that can slowly release a mixture of different sized foods to the gorg spread out over a longer period of time.

On a natural reef the amount of food available to an animal such as this is many, many times greater than what it is getting in a closed syatem at home. And there is a very fine line between providing adequate food, and trashing your water quality. Many aquarists are unable to find a happy equalibrium.

Best of luck

Brett

 

[williah]

I don't dose Iodine. OUt of the 3 choices listed by reefkeeper2, this is the only one that I would think is a prob.

My salinaty is a steady 1.0245. My nitrates are high (15-20) but I do weekly water changes (12%) with fresh water.

I feed my tank a mixture of algae flakes, brine shrimp, phytoplankton, cyclopeeze. Daily I give flakes and phyto, then with brine shrimp or cyclo, alternating, as the 3rd daily food source.

I don't know. It's gotten worse. The strange thing is that it's dissolving at the base only, not the branches. My LFS tech was servicing my tank orginally and he fastened it to my live rock using hardening putty, a little, flat amount. I always wonder if this was part of the problem.

I had a Fuji coral dissolve on me in a similar way. I don't get it.

 

[coralnut99]

Epoxy will burn the tissue of about any coral. If the epoxy got in contact with live tissue, it could've started the ball rolling. fwiw, I'm not a big fan of flake foods. Fish may be OK with the stuff, but specialized feeders like gorgonians are another matter. A picture would really help here.

 

[sl-atl]

I would suggest dosing with iodine. I personally just use the "beginner" dosage instructions on the bottle, since from what I have read the test kits are not very precise. Soft corals and gorgonians in particular require iodine, and if you don't dose then you are relying on water changes only to replace the iodine that they and other organisms (and skimmers/filters) remove from the water.

 

[sunny1977]

try reefroids from poly lab it works for this coral and again i am no way connected to this product just sharing my experience

 

[dendro982]

Post photo, please. Or take a look at Image Search for Diodogorgia nodulifera and tell, if yours is like that.
It should be thinner, than 1", starting right at base.

If it is this gorgonian, and if it continue not responding to a feeding, flow, water changes, adding carbon, then you may try gorgonian flake recipe by GARF (or flake recipe by mcox33 here, at RC) and add something like ESV phytoplankton, not nannocloropsis.

Once for my yellow diodogorgia was useful antibiotic treatment (likely erithromicin, in Ultralife Red Slime Remover). If the surface becomes matt, rough - then the core may be dead and gorgonian will need fragging healthy ends of branches, checking condition of the core (or skeleton), until healthy tissue will be found. Worked for a red morphs.

 

[lilmonkey]

My gorgonians (multiple species) have only lasted a year or so before going belly up. No matter what steps I have taken. They have always suffered the dreaded bottom up death. I've given up on them altogether.

 

[dendro982]

lilmonkey: Negative experience is still experience, it's valuable.
What do you think about starting a separate thread about descriptions of the tank setups, maintenance and unforeseen circumstances, that resulted gorgonians demise? For all of us to watch for. I'll add my observations.

BTW, how other non-photosynthetic corals and fine filter feedings were in your tank during the same year?

I have up and downs too, trying to analyze this and post results on forums. The oldest diodogorgia lives for more than 2 yrs, and swiftia - for 1.5 yrs, but I'm relatively new in the hobby, 2 3/4 yrs

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I'll be somewhat surprised but very interested to see if iodine supplementation makes a difference here (as opposed to feeding, etc). Gorgonia are among the very few organisms with a known need for iodine, and some at least are able to take it up from seawater and not just from their diet.

In general, I think most people, iodine or not, seem to have poor results with nonphotosynthetic gorgonia.

I discuss iodine/gorgonia here:

Iodine in Marine Aquaria: Part I
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/mar2003/chem.htm

from it:

Who uses iodine: Gorgonia and antipatharian corals (black coral)

Another set of creatures of the deep that use iodine are certain gorgonia, such as Plexaura flexuosa.42 They have 3,5-diiodotyrosine in their bodies, to the tune of 0.1 to 2.6% of the total dry weight as iodine. This iodoamino acid is presumably incorporated into proteins in the skeleton (stem), but the benefit is unclear. Again, it may be largely an antipredatory effect that is desired. The iodine incorporation in gorgonia seems to increase with age.43,44 The proteins of many different gorgonia species contain substantial iodine: Eunicella otenocalloides 6.5-8.9% by weight%, Gorgonia verrucosa 4.2-9.0, G. lamarcki 3.3-6.8, G. scirpearia 0.4-0.6, Rhipidigorgia flabellum 0.6-1.1, Euplexora maghrebensis 0.19-0.23, and Plexaura kukenthali 1.9-2.2.44 It has also been demonstrated that at least one gorgonia (E. verrucosa) takes up iodine in the form of inorganic iodine from the water column.45

One study showed that the organoiodine compound thyroxine, and some related compounds, are localized to certain parts of the gorgonia L. virgulata.46 Most interestingly, one of the places it is localized to are scleroblasts (spicule-forming cells) and on the spicules themselves. Further, the addition of thyroxine to these cells impacted the uptake of calcium, and it is suggested that the thyroxine functions in spicule formation.

The antipatharian corals (the black corals) also seem to incorporate a lot of iodine. The basal regions of these corals are especially loaded with iodine, with more than 23% iodine by dry weight recorded in two species.43, 45 Again, the specific purpose is not known.

 

[dendro982]

There was thread at Ultimate Reef (uk) about dosing iodine for gorgonians, but without follow up, unfortunately.

My diodogorgias show some growth without increasing iodine levels in Instant Ocean or Red Sea salts, the oldest one is >2 yrs old.