help me understand low nutrients

[spinsonic]

so i've read a lot of threads stating to keep nutrients levels low for sps tanks. Then i also read threads that having too low may cause sps to lose its color, and to correct this is to feed heavily. Which is true???

I've been dosing vodka and running gfo/carbon in reactor in an attempt to keep p04 between .04-08 and nitrates to 0-1. my sps seems to be growing but lacks polyp extension and color. I had a few pieces that were purple and blues when first purchased, but now just plain brow. It's not bleached so I know its still alive, but what can possibly be causing this? I'm feeding reef roids and DT once a week.

levels are as stable as can be. with ca 430, alk 8.4, and mag 1300. temp swings are 79-81 degrees.

 

[Guygettnby]

i have had this problem myself and would also like to know what others think. with my new lights i can really see the color loss now.

 

[Alex T.]

What lighting are you running?

 

[alwaysreefing]

Low nutriets can be good and bad you have to find balance. If to high corals tend to get brown, which also means your water quailty is poor. If to low your water is very clean which means you need to add aminos. I rather have a low nutriet tank then high nutriet tank. Low can be fixed with increased feeding do not get crazy with it or adding supplements which me personally is against. Low nutriet tanks corals take on a pastel look which means corals are starving. Some people have learned to keep there corals looking that way but yet remain healthy again that balance. Fish also play a role if you do not have fish you do not create waste which menas no nutriets. If you skimmer is way to big for your system it can remove more nutriets then your building up (yes sounds crazy but true).

Question how big is your tank
DO you have fish if so how many
What type of skimmer do you have
How often do you feed

 

[Allmost]

ok some ppl are going to disagree with me .... but ...

do SPS color up with ZERO po4 ? no, it dies.

does ZERO po4 on a test kit [even hanna] mean ZERO po4 ? no, they have 4% error at best.

so the Idea of corals [anything alive] needing po4 to make cells, is correct. but again, that does not mean we should register po4 on our test kits for SPS to live ! unless ure doing lab grade testing.

so with that said, brown = too much nutritions, so you still need to lower nutritions more in order to get the colors.

now lets look at how corals get their energy ! they can eat particles [corals are not selective eaters] and break it down and use the nutriton form it. they can use light [photosynthasis] and they can also use the available nutrition in water around them, so no3 and po4. if no3 and po4 around them is low enough [low nutrition tank] they start to loose population of zoox algae that lives within them. now this gives the aquarist a choise / options ! we can feed the corals so they keep their true colors, feed them less for them to look paler, or feed more for stronger colors. that's the point of Low nutritions, you the aquarist deciding the food your corals get, not the aquarium itself deciding that

hope that helped ...

 

[deepseadan]

so i've read a lot of threads stating to keep nutrients levels low for sps tanks. Then i also read threads that having too low may cause sps to lose its color, and to correct this is to feed heavily. Which is true???

I've been dosing vodka and running gfo/carbon in reactor in an attempt to keep p04 between .04-08 and nitrates to 0-1. my sps seems to be growing but lacks polyp extension and color. I had a few pieces that were purple and blues when first purchased, but now just plain brow. It's not bleached so I know its still alive, but what can possibly be causing this? I'm feeding reef roids and DT once a week.

levels are as stable as can be. with ca 430, alk 8.4, and mag 1300. temp swings are 79-81 degrees.

I always wonder what nutrients people are talking about when they say low nutrients. Having said that that, .04 and .08 po4 is to high. Every tank is different, and every test kit seems to be different. What worked good for me was a red sea po4 test kit. When using that kit, if my phosphates were .02 or above, I had issues. My salifert test kit always seemed to be 0, even when red sea was reading .08. Also watch your no3, vodka or carbon dosing is very effective against nitrates and probably has you at zero. When my tank has no nitrates, everything suffers as well. I've had good luck with the no3 red sea kit testing at around 1, give or take a little.
I had issues for years with color and growth with my SPS. I almost gave up. What I ended up doing was running gfo, no fuge, way over skimming, weekly water changes of 10% using coral pro salt, feeding oyster, Roto and phyto feasts two times a week, and feeding a decent high quality flakes to my fish daily. Doing that and keeping my po4 below .02 and no3 around 1 (on the red sea test kits), everything is very happy. I also have 3 250 watt radiums running on lumatek's in hamilton Cayman Sun reflectors.

 

[Johniii]

I agree that po4 at .04-.08 is to high. You want it at .03 or less.

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[deepseadan]

One more thought, if your water is testing at .04 - .08 po4 that's what's left in your water after every living thing (including nuisance algae) is consuming for their needs. I figure if you feed flakes for example, daily, you are always suppling nutrients to your inhabitants, but you want to remove the excess "unused" nutrients.

 

[gbru316]

what's the flow like in your tank?

I've seen poor polyp extension attributed to lack of flow. Low flow could also potentially cause your color issues.

 

[spinsonic]

What lighting are you running?

I'm running 10x 80w t5 for a 150G tank. Just ordered 4x AI Vegas to replace them. Can't deal with the cost of electricity any longer.

I always wonder what nutrients people are talking about when they say low nutrients. Having said that that, .04 and .08 po4 is to high. Every tank is different, and every test kit seems to be different. What worked good for me was a red sea po4 test kit. When using that kit, if my phosphates were .02 or above, I had issues. My salifert test kit always seemed to be 0, even when red sea was reading .08. Also watch your no3, vodka or carbon dosing is very effective against nitrates and probably has you at zero. When my tank has no nitrates, everything suffers as well. I've had good luck with the no3 red sea kit testing at around 1, give or take a little.
QUOTE]

Was using red sea p04 test kit as well. It is so difficult to color match to read levels. I am using Hanna now and the readings are between .00-.12 depending on when I replace gfo. Carbon dosing did a great job on reducing nitrates from 2 to 0.

I agree that po4 at .04-.08 is to high. You want it at .03 or less.

it seems like the only way for me to keep .03 or less is to feed less and replace gfo weekly, along with carbon dosing. I did keep it at this level for few weeks, but still no luck with coloring. This lead me to believe the water is too clean therefor feeding more and not replace gfo to have po4 between .04-08

Keeping p04 and no3 at zero is not difficult for me at all. The question is should I, because I wasn't seeing any improvements keeping it at these levels.

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2

 

[spinsonic]

what's the flow like in your tank?

I've seen poor polyp extension attributed to lack of flow. Low flow could also potentially cause your color issues.

I have to say its good. Running 2 mp40's at 90% each end, along with return pump and 1 back wall pump. I do have 3 other back wall pumps that's turned off, since flow seems a bit extreme with all of them on. Not sure if running 7 at the same time would be a good idea.

 

[gbru316]

I have to say its good. Running 2 mp40's at 90% each end, along with return pump and 1 back wall pump. I do have 3 other back wall pumps that's turned off, since flow seems a bit extreme with all of them on. Not sure if running 7 at the same time would be a good idea.

MP40 at 90% is about 2800 gph, so you have about 5600 gph through the mp40's. Just counting those, you're at 42x.

Not sure on the size of your other pumps, but it seems like at least 70-90x turnover is common. I'm between 100-150x on my tank.


What's the turnover rate in your tank?

Try increasing the flow, worst case scenario is nothing responds and you turn the flow back down.

 

[spinsonic]

yea think i'll try and give that a shot for few weeks. maybe flow seems a bit too much for me, but not for corals. i'll have all 7 running and see how it goes. thanks!

 

[gbru316]

yea think i'll try and give that a shot for few weeks. maybe flow seems a bit too much for me, but not for corals. i'll have all 7 running and see how it goes. thanks!

A friend of mine makes a living scuba diving on reefs. When asked if an mp10 was too much flow on a 10g, he laughed. :lmao:

 

[Allmost]

a tab bigger tank, i have 1 MP60, 2 MP40, 2 tunze 6105 all at 100%

and sand bed

direct flow to a coral is not good, but random high flow is amazing and pulls PE out.

 

[spinsonic]

a tab bigger tank, i have 1 MP60, 2 MP40, 2 tunze 6105 all at 100%

and sand bed

direct flow to a coral is not good, but random high flow is amazing and pulls PE out.

wow that's some flow! maybe that's my problem then. thanks

 

[Allmost]

it sure could be related ! I always wash my power heads when I notice corals dulling in color or nuritions rising, it goes back to normal the day after !

I like to thnk of it as, there is food in water, if flow is high, that food will get 10 chances of being eaten by a polyp.
if flow is higher, then it gets 100 chances ...

and if flow lower, it will get less chances of being eaten, and more chance of it rottting away, increasing nutritions...
kinda like quantum thoery hahah

 

[Allmost]

Dp /...

 

[alwaysreefing]

Random water flow is the key

 

[gdubs97]

That makes sense. Thanks for the explanation

ok some ppl are going to disagree with me .... but ...

do SPS color up with ZERO po4 ? no, it dies.

does ZERO po4 on a test kit [even hanna] mean ZERO po4 ? no, they have 4% error at best.

so the Idea of corals [anything alive] needing po4 to make cells, is correct. but again, that does not mean we should register po4 on our test kits for SPS to live ! unless ure doing lab grade testing.

so with that said, brown = too much nutritions, so you still need to lower nutritions more in order to get the colors.

now lets look at how corals get their energy ! they can eat particles [corals are not selective eaters] and break it down and use the nutriton form it. they can use light [photosynthasis] and they can also use the available nutrition in water around them, so no3 and po4. if no3 and po4 around them is low enough [low nutrition tank] they start to loose population of zoox algae that lives within them. now this gives the aquarist a choise / options ! we can feed the corals so they keep their true colors, feed them less for them to look paler, or feed more for stronger colors. that's the point of Low nutritions, you the aquarist deciding the food your corals get, not the aquarium itself deciding that

hope that helped ...