Help my blue tort, ¿?

[celamb89]

Hi everyone,

Started this thread in order to find out what is going on with my blue tort maybe someone had a simliar experience...

I've had this piece for almost one year, and it has shown great growth... It started off in my tank under 10 month old 6x54w T5's for some reason, I guess looking for more light it grew horizontal... When I switched to LED's (june 2012) the tips started to grow vertically towards the lights... I noticed it started to show little to no polyp extension when I did a 25% WC 3 weeks ago, I did another 20% WC (last weekend) and one of the tips had signs of algae which I fragged, yesterday most of the tips had algae...

This morning I decided to frag large chunks of the tips and cut in to the healthy tissue (still no PE, this is my major concern)...

All other SPS are fine (PE and growth) which include:
Pink birdsnest
2x millie frags (pink and green blue tips)
monti digitata
2x unkown frags
strawberry shortcake
monti sunset

Other corals are LPS, softies and clams...

I dose carbon daily (vodka), Ca and KH with 3x persitatic pumps... I also run activated carbon and rowaphos...

Skimmer is a SRO2000 internal, I have chaeto and LR in the sump...

*Note: I did the large water change, since the tank is now 2 years old and wanted everything to be stable and read its good practice to do a large WC once a year...

**I also added a larger amount of Rowa about 200ml, last month... other changes was that I started to mix 3/4 of vodka and 1/4 of vinegar for the carbon...


I'm at work right now but my sister will test the Ca and KH around noon when she gets home... Any hints?? :headwally:

 

[jroovers]

I have never heard that about the large WC... I would think consistent, 10% water changes once weekly or once every other week would be wiser than one large 25% water change, unless you have some kind of problem on your hands.

Looks like you have tinkered with various different changes (rowaphos, large water change, carbon dosing changes too?), could be having a culmative effect and is making it unhappy.

My best guess is your water parameters or nutrient levels are off. I would start with your Ca and Alk levels... if carbon dosing, you want that ALK around 7 to 8 dkh, higher than that can lead to problems according to most opinions. You then may want to check your nitrate and phosphate levels. You may have started carbon dosing, and introduced rowaphos, and suddenly stripped the water column of nutrients, and your stag is the first to show the negative effects.

 

[celamb89]

I have always done 25% WC one a month, I added a 20% WC in the same month...

You have a good point, my ALK may be too high. I didn't know all should run that low when carbon dosing, been dosig for over a year now with no problems, maybe the vinegar did something?. I'll wait for the results of the ca and kh hen my sister runs them. All may be the problem, I was closed minded to flow and light for some reason.

I'll post the params later on... I stoppe testing po4 and no3 some time go to be honest, with the skimmer, chaeto, rowa and carbon dosing they were always in check... Ill check the alk and ca and if needed will take a sample to the lfs for the other tests.

 

[celamb89]

The tank is a 120gal BTW...

I also meant that ALK may be the problem... If so, I guess I'll stop dosing until its in check 8dkh

 

[reefsurfing]

Dbl post

 

[reefsurfing]

I think your nitrate and phosphate are getting close to zero and you could be a little too aggressive with your nutrient export. The carbon dosing combined with higher Alk makes your sps less tolerant to changes... Check your levels and let us know

 

[jroovers]

I would check the Alk first and go from there, and do some quick reading on optimal Alk levels with carbon dosing. If you are much higher than 8 you may want to bring it gradually down but that is going from memory so please do your due diligence. I run BPs and don't dose vodka/vinegar, but if you changed the ratio or dose it maybe part of the issue. If you have chaeto growing in the sump, you must have some level of phosphates in your system... not saying that is good or bad, but I think most with a true ULNS have little to no success or need to grow Chaeto for nutrient export. I got rid of mine when inititiating BP's, makes less mess in the tank to boot. If you suddenly introduced more rowaphos, and did a huge water change and then another, it definitely could have changed the available nutrients in the water colunm and IMO combined with the alk factor is the likely culprit.

Given that most preach stability with SPS, if you want to try and keep things more stable for your SPS I'd change your water change schedule. Go to smaller, more regular changes rather than once monthly larger changes. Without a doubt this is going to minimize fluctuations in water parameters and pH.

 

[JPMagyar]

This is a hobby and everyone should use the lights they enjoy, but here is my experience and thoughts on keeping "blue torts". . .


. . . . I have experimented with many many LEDs both over my own tank and over friends tanks and I can say that "Blue Torts" especially frags of "Oregon Tort" and "Cali Tort" either died or turned very pale under any LED. There are many SPS that simply do not do well under LED for a myriad of reasons. I have no doubt that someday LEDs will be perfected, but right now there are many unsolved problems that make LEDs a less than perfect choice for growing colorful SPS of every kind. (By that I mean some SPS do fine under LEDs just not ALL).

If you want your tort to stay blue go back to T5s.


Here is my tank. I have had Oregon Tort and Cali Tort since 2003. I sell both locally and every frag I sold to LED users died.

Joe Peck

 

[celamb89]

Thanks for everyones input!

JP, awesome tank, stunning is the word... My sister was unable to do the tests, she called all mixed up and confused... When I get off work I'll post the params...

I'll start to change my WC schedule... The chaeto in the sump does grow, but I trim it about once every 3 months, its in there primarly to keep the pods population up for the mandarin...

Im almost certain my ALK and Ca are going to be off, I guess I ran too confident my doser was in check and didnt check after the WC... I used to check the dosage and pumps weekly... I got too confident and let myu guard down...

I'll post later when I get home and let y'all know how it goes

 

[celamb89]

left work early, got home and rushed to the tank... after running the test>>

Ca 330 (red sea calcium pro test kit)
ALK 13 (salifert)

Lessons learned:
Always test even newly mixed salt, before and after...
check ur dosing (even automated)
smaller WC

Im going to stop dosing ALK and continue with Ca until they reach optimum levels...

I used Red Sea Coral Pro which is supposed to have optimum levels of Ca, Mg, and Alk (yeah right)

Feel like I started the hobbie yesterday

 

[reefinsomnia]

Whats your MG? Your alk wont stop dropping until your mg does.

left work early, got home and rushed to the tank... after running the test>>

Ca 330 (red sea calcium pro test kit)
ALK 13 (salifert)

Lessons learned:
Always test even newly mixed salt, before and after...
check ur dosing (even automated)
smaller WC

Im going to stop dosing ALK and continue with Ca until they reach optimum levels...

I used Red Sea Coral Pro which is supposed to have optimum levels of Ca, Mg, and Alk (yeah right)

Feel like I started the hobbie yesterday

 

[celamb89]

I'll check the Mg... If high, how would I lower Mg? Never had that problem before

 

[trueblackpercula]

This is a hobby and everyone should use the lights they enjoy, but here is my experience and thoughts on keeping "blue torts". . .


. . . . I have experimented with many many LEDs both over my own tank and over friends tanks and I can say that "Blue Torts" especially frags of "Oregon Tort" and "Cali Tort" either died or turned very pale under any LED. There are many SPS that simply do not do well under LED for a myriad of reasons. I have no doubt that someday LEDs will be perfected, but right now there are many unsolved problems that make LEDs a less than perfect choice for growing colorful SPS of every kind. (By that I mean some SPS do fine under LEDs just not ALL).

If you want your tort to stay blue go back to T5s.


Here is my tank. I have had Oregon Tort and Cali Tort since 2003. I sell both locally and every frag I sold to LED users died.

Joe Peck

Simply jaw dropping tank and send me a PM would love a frag of both torts when you have them available.

Also thank you for the information on the LEDs

 

[frankyrivera]

This is a hobby and everyone should use the lights they enjoy, but here is my experience and thoughts on keeping "blue torts". . .


. . . . I have experimented with many many LEDs both over my own tank and over friends tanks and I can say that "Blue Torts" especially frags of "Oregon Tort" and "Cali Tort" either died or turned very pale under any LED. There are many SPS that simply do not do well under LED for a myriad of reasons. I have no doubt that someday LEDs will be perfected, but right now there are many unsolved problems that make LEDs a less than perfect choice for growing colorful SPS of every kind. (By that I mean some SPS do fine under LEDs just not ALL).

If you want your tort to stay blue go back to T5s.


Here is my tank. I have had Oregon Tort and Cali Tort since 2003. I sell both locally and every frag I sold to LED users died.

Joe Peck

Where's my piece joe lol

 

[reefinsomnia]

high mag isnt that bad. back when i was stabilizing my system i had mag at 1600 before which isnt that bad at all. with an alk at 13 your mag will be anywhere from 1500-1700. considered too high but not danger imo. it will drop on its own

I'll check the Mg... If high, how would I lower Mg? Never had that problem before

 

[power boat jim]

I find it interesting that the tort was fine for 7 months, even showed growth. Then it went south after a number of changes are made in the carbon dosing and WC schedule. Burnt tips are generally a sign of alk problems. I have a blue tort that has been fine for 18 months under LEDs. Lighting problems dont normally take 7 months to manifest.

I would go back to doing things the way you were before you started the dosing changes.

 

[trueblackpercula]

I find it interesting that the tort was fine for 7 months, even showed growth. Then it went south after a number of changes are made in the carbon dosing and WC schedule. Burnt tips are generally a sign of alk problems. I have a blue tort that has been fine for 18 months under LEDs. Lighting problems dont normally take 7 months to manifest.

I would go back to doing things the way you were before you started the dosing changes.

I would if possible like to see a picture of your Tort. Only because I'd like to change out my VHO bulbs for led but I am hearing and reading that you just can't keep certain types of sps with LEDs.
Thanks

 

[power boat jim]

I would if possible like to see a picture of your Tort. Only because I'd like to change out my VHO bulbs for led but I am hearing and reading that you just can't keep certain types of sps with LEDs.
Thanks

I will work on getting a recent pic posted tonite. I can say which ones do grow well under led. Green slimer, Selago, any Pocillopora, Red planet, Loripes,Kimbinesis,Tenuis,Hyacinthus,Turbinera,Valida,Porites,Birdsnest,Hydnopora,Secale, Nana and a bunch of Aussie stuff I dont know the name of. These are just a few that are in my tank and some of the other LED lit tanks I have seen that are doing very well long term.

The Tort looks great but I must admit it is a SLOW grower in my system.

 

[jroovers]

left work early, got home and rushed to the tank... after running the test>>

Ca 330 (red sea calcium pro test kit)
ALK 13 (salifert)

Lessons learned:
Always test even newly mixed salt, before and after...
check ur dosing (even automated)
smaller WC

Im going to stop dosing ALK and continue with Ca until they reach optimum levels...

I used Red Sea Coral Pro which is supposed to have optimum levels of Ca, Mg, and Alk (yeah right)

Feel like I started the hobbie yesterday

Looks like you have found the culprit. The lighting/LED tort issue aside, it would be handy to have your own ALK and Ca test kits around if you want to get serious about SPS... for situations like this.

 

[celamb89]

here is the tort, its not a oregon or cali but I like it, you can see a blurry frag in the back, its a fire echinata its doing a lot better under LED than T5, at least for now:

anyway the large branches to left were grown under T5, thats what I meant by horizontal... The tips to the right and middle growing vertically were grown under LEDs...

Looks like you have found the culprit. The lighting/LED tort issue aside, it would be handy to have your own ALK and Ca test kits around if you want to get serious about SPS... for situations like this.

I do have my own test kits, actually they are the only ones I have, Ca (red sea pro), ALK (salifert), Mg (red sea)... My NO3, PO4, nitrite and amonia kits expired and I never got new ones... after I started dosing carbon I didnt really use them...

When I get home this afternoon I'll take another pic... the tips that had algae will now be fragged... They did have some live tissue on them so I left the frags in the tank, maybe they'll grow a new colony who knows