Help!!! My tangs got white dots all over.

[scubasteve06]

I agree with you, the OP should have done way more research and taken it much slower, but I don't agree with your broad statements.

Everyone's tanks are very different from each other and what is true with one tank wont be true with another. As an example I have never quarantined a fish in the five years I have been in this hobby and I have never dealt with ick, or any other parasites. Now if I got my fish from Petco instead of my great LFS I would definitely want to QT my fish.

Saying a fish needs a certain size of tank and wont do well in anything less is wrong imo. If a fish is eating, active, and shows no signs of stress or illness what more could you ask for. You cant quantify happiness in fish and we have no idea if a yellow tang in a 400 gallon tank is any happier than my yellow tang in my 55 gallon if they are both eating, active, and show no signs of illness/stress. However the OP's fish are showing signs of stress/illness and are not suited for the tank they are in.

You are in a for a disaster one day by not Qt'ing your fish, and there is nothing more to it than that. I don't buy my fish from Petco and I still QT them. You will be sorry for not doing so one day. Maybe not yet, but one day you will understand.

You are also naive thinking that a fish in a 400g tank is no happier than a fish in a 55g tank. There is a reason people who aren't 16 yet can't have a liscence to drive, just like there is a reason there is a size requirement on tanks for certain fish. It's that simple, for you to think that way is just plain idiotic. If and when your tang lives to be 5 years old (which I highly doubt seeing as you don't QT and keep it in a way undersized tank) it will be close to 6" and will be a terror in your tank. I had a 3" one in my 125g and it wouldn't allow a single new fish to be added. He paced the 6' of my tank all day long and 'flashed' everywhere. Seriously, you need to go grab some books like I told the OP to do and read about minimum care guides of the fish you are keeping. If you think a Sweet Lips which grows to 2' long, a PBT and a Sailfin tang which both get 10" long not to mention the sailfin will get as tall as it will long, you need to leave this hobby. Any moderator, or member that has any more sense than you or experience in this hobby (years don't count, especially in your case) will tell you to go head back to the new to the hobby section and take a refresher course.

I am going to leave this thread now before I say something that will get me in more trouble than this post probably will.

 

[steelhead77]

Take it easy. Well i went to the fish store and asked for help. Also after reading up on ick, i have decided to do it my way. I got a bottle of reef safe 100% natural Micro lift Herbtana and Micro-lift special blend. Followed manufactured direction, i put some of that stuff in there. I also fed them food dipped in fresh garlic juice. My fishes have less spots on them today. My corals are doing well in the tank also. What more can i ask for!
If this treatment is successful, i will keep my tank as is and run it more the next 6 months without adding more live stock.

P.s.My fishes are eating like pigs....yeahhh..

It sounds like your going to do it your way no matter what everyone else says. Why bother asking for advice if you are going to disregard every single bit of it. These so-called "reef safe" treatments do not work. Pretty much everyone here knows my position about removing and treating fish because of ich (if not, do a search) but in your case, I firmly believe that you will end up killing your fish if you don't get them out and return them to the store you bought them from.

 

[scubasteve06]

Also there is no such thing as Garlic 'juice'. It is just garlic that we would use to flavor our food as humans with certain vitamins added, mainly vitamin c. It will not kill ich, just raise your fishes immune system to help keep them from possibly perishing. It might raise their immune system up enough to actually keep it from popping up again, but it won't go away. The next time a fish is added it will come right back. If you don't QT regardless of what some in this thread think it can and will happen. What if that great LFS takes a fish back or a fish in on trade that someone had in a tank with ich in it? Bam the whole system has ich, because every LFS I've been to usually has almost all their tanks aside from display systems in-line and the disease will eventually infect all the fish that are in-line.

 

[jadendo]

Wow! Lots of helps and responses. I truly appreciate your attention. I can not return the fishes to the store and can not QT them because it will even put more stress on them and the whole system.
I have spend more than my Thanksgiving reading up on this stuff. I do believe that there are many ways of treating them with copper, cupermine, hyposalinity with garlic food, and reef-safe natural herb.
I googled and have read that some people actually were successful using the Microbe-lift Herbtana. The fishstore owner also recommended me to use it. I want to use this as an experiment, so other people later can use this as a reference.
After 4 days of dosing water with this Herbtana stuff, my Sweetlip does show sign of improvement. My Saifin and Powder Brown Tang still have white spots but they are all eating alot. All of my corals seem to be unaffected. I will keep you all updated until day 10. I hope they will all make it, including the corals.

 

[scubasteve06]

People have tried everything to treat ich. It won't work, your just wasting your money. The only reason you don't see anymore white spots is because they have dropped off the fish and are multiplying in the sand, once they do that they will become free swimming and latch on to your fish, again creating more white spots. We wouldn't be telling you it wouldn't work if it didn't. In all the reading you did, did you look up ich's lifecycle?

The only ways to kill ich are Formalin, Cupramine(copper) and hyposalinity, that's it. I really hope you will see the light. People that say removing the fish to QT will only stress them more and die are idiots. QT is the only way to treat a fish with ich succesfully and not poison your display. The ones that say that when they moved their fish to qt and it died because of stress are wrong. It died because they waited too long to treat it by leaving it in the DT and treating it with useless medicine.

Why can't you return them? I'm guessing the same LFS owner that sold you fish that were incompatible with your tank, and knowing it was only 2 weeks old recommended you buy that product from him also. You ask for help and then do the complete opposite of what you were told to do. I don't even know why I am still here trying to tell you what to do...:furious:

 

[Turbovr3six]

Did the people who keep selling you useless stuff also sell Jack his beanstalk beans?

I'm going to discontinue to reply to this thread, as you obviously don't get it. Between the facts that you think that the "white spots" are gone, and you have an undersized tank BY FAR, you don't listen.

Not trying to be out of line but: "you know when a mom got to beat you, and she'll be like it hurts me more than it hurts you". That's the tough love your getting from me/us.

Best wishes and again good luck!:wavehand:

 

[scubasteve06]

No turbo they were magic jumping beans:lmao:

 

[Rwpdunne]

Them fish are doomed

 

[enjetek]

jadendo these guys are absolutely right. i started a tank a couple months ago and got ich. never again will i add a new fish in without putting it in a qt. anyways, i was like you and put a whole bunch of crap in the dt (malachite green and formalin). big big mistake. even after the treatment the fish were still flashing on the rocks and sand. i finally found a good fish store locally (after going to 2 others that were just selling me crap) and one of the workers there told me exactly what these guys are telling you. i took the copper route and they all stopped flashing and were acting much more alert. you need to setup a ht tank asap and just use the water and filter media for it. params were shaky but it was better than letting them stay in the dt with the ich still in there. watch for the initial ammonia carefully and the fish can get through it. the spots went away like you describe but the person at the fish store told me that it was under the skin of the fish and that was why they were still flashing. good luck. also, treat for flukes and other stuff while they are out since you want to be sure they have nothing else if you can.

 

[scubasteve06]

jadendo these guys are absolutely right. i started a tank a couple months ago and got ich. never again will i add a new fish in without putting it in a qt. anyways, i was like you and put a whole bunch of crap in the dt (malachite green and formalin). big big mistake. even after the treatment the fish were still flashing on the rocks and sand. i finally found a good fish store locally (after going to 2 others that were just selling me crap) and one of the workers there told me exactly what these guys are telling you. i took the copper route and they all stopped flashing and were acting much more alert. you need to setup a ht tank asap and just use the water and filter media for it. params were shaky but it was better than letting them stay in the dt with the ich still in there. watch for the initial ammonia carefully and the fish can get through it. the spots went away like you describe but the person at the fish store told me that it was under the skin of the fish and that was why they were still flashing. good luck. also, treat for flukes and other stuff while they are out since you want to be sure they have nothing else if you can.

Great first post enjetek and welcome to Reef Central!

 

[enjetek]

Great first post enjetek and welcome to Reef Central!

Thanks and glad to be here. I'm just trying to save this guy his time, his money, and most importantly his fish.

 

[nygiants72]

Leave the main tank empty for 8 weeks. Move all the fishes to QT. Use Cupramine with the Red Sea copper test kit.

Do not use any equipments that could cause cross contamination.

 

[steelhead77]

People have tried everything to treat ich. The only ways to kill ich are Formalin, Cupramine(copper) and hyposalinity, that's it. I really hope you will see the light. People that say removing the fish to QT will only stress them more and die are idiots. QT is the only way to treat a fish with ich succesfully and not poison your display. The ones that say that when they moved their fish to qt and it died because of stress are wrong. It died because they waited too long to treat it by leaving it in the DT and treating it with useless medicine.
:

Easy now Steve.....There are MANY of us who chose not to go the route you propose and have been successful at eradicating ich in our tank without QT, HT or fallowness. Despite what you think, chasing a fish around a tank with a net IS stressful and can harm the fish and make things much, much worse. IMO stress is the number one cause of ich in a home marine system. Causing more does no-one any good at all.

That said, I do think this guy needs to get all of his fish out any way he can. His tank is MUCH too small for those fish and they are doomed if he keeps them as they are - current disease or not.

 

[jadendo]

I have made so many stupid mistakes because of my inexperience. Let's just say if I can start it all over, I would definitely spend twice the time to think thru about my whole setup and slowly do things the right way.
For a fact, I can not return the fish to the stores because it's a business. I don't want to chase the fishes with a net because that only will stress them out even more and eventually kill them in my newly setup QT tank.
I have researched and found that some people from Thereeftank.com have successfully treated their Dt with the Microbe-Lift Herbtana with a 10 day treatment or more. I am right now at day 4 and feeling pretty good about the whole situation compared to 4 days ago. Things seem to be under control. I understand that this might be temporary because those parasites might just drop off and multiply in the sand bed (Yuck!!!!), but I have to have faith in the medication. For colateral damage, my little red crab died last night. All my corals seem to be ok with the treatment, except my yellow pollyps doesn't open that much anymore.

Report:
Day 4:
- Sweetlip: fat and not more white dots.
- Firetail fish: had 2 dots and now no more spots.
- Saifin tang: have scars on body and white dots on fins but fading out.
- Powder tang: body clears up alot, white dots on fins but looks better too.
- Little red crab: did not make it
- Hermits/Snails: all doing good
- Yellow polyps: doesn't look so good
- Flower pot, Mushrooms, Daisy, some hard corals: Looks good.

I just feed them 2-3 times with brine shrimps dipped in fresh garlic juice everyday.
Conclusion: I defintely see an effectiveness in using this method. However, I can be fooled when the next ick attach comes. Maybe eventually, I will have to move them all and do the Copper route, but that's the last resort.

Sofar I spent almost $1,300 total in this fish tank. Wow, they add up fast. I better make it work. In the back of my mind, I want to start all over with a new/better setup and do things right. This is my second time getting back in the hobby. Maybe I'll learn the third time. Thanks for all advice and feedbacks.

 

[pinnatus]

Not to be the bearer of more bad news, but a flowerpot coral is also a very bad choice, they seldom survive long in an aquarium.:sad2:

 

[GoingPostal]

I would buy some better fish food, brine shrimp is like junk food and isn't going to sustain them, tangs need dried algae (nori) a couple times a week on a clip and I would feed a variety of frozen, mysis, krill, chopped seafood, etc.

 

[jadendo]

Not to be the bearer of more bad news, but a flowerpot coral is also a very bad choice, they seldom survive long in an aquarium.:sad2:

Yep! You are the second person telling me that. I asked the sales guy to sell me an easy beginner coral and that's what he pointed me to....

 

[scubasteve06]

Easy now Steve.....There are MANY of us who chose not to go the route you propose and have been successful at eradicating ich in our tank without QT, HT or fallowness. Despite what you think, chasing a fish around a tank with a net IS stressful and can harm the fish and make things much, much worse. IMO stress is the number one cause of ich in a home marine system. Causing more does no-one any good at all.

That said, I do think this guy needs to get all of his fish out any way he can. His tank is MUCH too small for those fish and they are doomed if he keeps them as they are - current disease or not.

Stress does not bring about ich. Having ich in the tank to begin with causes ich. If your fish aren't showing signs of ich and then if you chase them around with a net, this MAYBE can make them more susceptible to the ich that was already there to begin with. I still can't believe there are people that think ich just magically goes away because they can't see it anymore. Fish can build up immunities to diseases. If this it what you have seen this is what happened. If this is the case and the ich just magically went away, it is still in the DT and moving the fish to a qt tank and leaving the tank fallow is the only way it's going to go away. If you don't believe this then I can't change what you think, but the literature on ich has proven this time and time and time again.

Added: if you can't catch a fish within a minute, then you need your hand eye coordination checked. Get a cutting board, block off the escape path and herd the fish into a corner. It has no where to go but up, once it does scoop them out. People make it sound so hard and stressful just to back their belief that it will magically go away and things can't get any worse and will eventually get better.

 

[jadendo]

Steve!

I do agree with you 100%. However, this Herbtana stuff is prescribed for 10 days or more. The ick has an 8 day cycle, so they would hopefully be killed off once they leave the fish to multiply in the sand. I am planning to use this stuff for at least 15 days to complete kill off any of the remains. This method has been proven for some people from TheReefTank.com

Day 5 update:
- Sweetlip: fat and not more white dots.
- Firetail fish: no more white dots.
- Saifin tang: have scars on body and white dots on fins but fading out.
- Powder tang: Looks so much better. Only fins have some left.
- Little red crab: did not make it
- Hermits/Snails: all doing good
- Yellow polyps: Looks good today
- Brown Xenia: was dead but then are coming back now. Wow!!!
- Flower pot, Mushrooms, Daisy, some hard corals: Looks good.

 

[RBU1]

I do agree with you 100%. However, this Herbtana stuff is prescribed for 10 days or more. The ick has an 8 day cycle, so they would hopefully be killed off once they leave the fish to multiply in the sand. I am planning to use this stuff for at least 15 days to complete kill off any of the remains. This method has been proven for some people from TheReefTank.com.

:hmm2::hmm2::hmm2::lol::lol::lol::lmao::lmao::lmao: