Help! Return Pump Problem!

[OregonReefer2]

I have nearly an identical setup... a 120g, 1500 GH overflow, a Mag 12 (split into two 3/4 tank inputs) return feeding 2 BRS reactors and Fuge and I can make it run near silent.

However, I have it tuned to create a "babbling brook" like noise because I like it

You need to know the noise source.

If it's the pump vibrating, put a piece of mouse pad under it

If it's the overflow, valve down the tank inputs

 

[Joel_155]

I would make a durso if at all possible with your setup. I had the burping with my tank and the durso standpipe fixed it. There are several different varieties but if you google it youll get several hits.

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[Joel_155]

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

 

[OregonReefer2]

You can't make a durso in a GH overflow box... at least not in mine... No way to make it fit

 

[sleepydoc]

any possibility you have a small leak in your plumbing somewhere that's sucking in air with the higher flows?

 

[cemyth]

Thanks everyone for your comments. I didn’t get much of a chance last night to play with everyone’s ideas because I was feeling a little under the weather.

I did experiment with a few ideas.
The noise from the overflow has stopped. Pulling the vinyl tubing out of the bulkhead a little fixed that.
However, the loud noise from the return pump is still there. I don’t believe it is the sound of vibration or humming. Something sounds off.

Here are two video links I took this morning of the pump with the valve wide opened and one with it half closed.

Half closed - Sounds good just no flow.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sh5GMmUB96k&feature=channel&list=UL

Open all the way - Sounds like rocks in the pump.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoXuL3VoNYQ

Sorry they are a little dark.

Would it make that sound with a pinhole in the plumbing?

Could it be coming from the tubing going to the two reactors sucking air?

I looked thru the sides of the sump with a flashlight to see if there were micro-bubbles and there was none. Clear as could be. My overflow plumbing is going into a sock removing the bubbles.

Correction from an early post, the water line above the inlet to the pump is 7 1/2” not 8”

Any thoughts of what could be doing this would be great!

 

[seapug]

glad to hear you got the burping and surging stopped.
The videos were a little hard to see but the sound difference was noticeable.

Do you not have any padding under the pump? I used to have a thick neoprene pad glued to the bottom of the mag drive I used on my old system. Rattled like crazy if I didn't. Intense vibration could be causing a small gap somewhere in the plumbing thats sucking air. Either way, you should have some sort of pad on that pump to protect the glass of the sump, if nothing else.

 

[cemyth]

I don't have the padding that came with the pump attached. I used some filter foam and a zip tie for testing. The strange thing is if I raise it off the glass when it is fully open it still sounds loud and it isn't touching anything.

 

[seapug]

I don't have the padding that came with the pump attached. I used some filter foam and a zip tie for testing. The strange thing is if I raise it off the glass when it is fully open it still sounds loud and it isn't touching anything.

Have you tried disconnecting the pump and opening it up to make sure there's nothing broken or stuck in it?

 

[cemyth]

Have you tried disconnecting the pump and opening it up to make sure there's nothing broken or stuck in it?

Yes. I did that yesterday thinking that just maybe there was something stuck in it. The only problem is I have a Mag 9.5 that sounds the exact same when I connect it to my setup. 2 pumps with the same sounds.

 

[Donkeykong]

Correct me if I am wrong but if there is a hole even a tiny hole in the return it would leak water not suck air. The return line is pressurized, it would take a line under vacuum to suck in air.

 

[seapug]

Correct me if I am wrong but if there is a hole even a tiny hole in the return it would leak water not suck air. The return line is pressurized, it would take a line under vacuum to suck in air.

That's typically how it works-- suction side leaks pull in air, pressure side leaks drip water. That's why return plumbing microbubbles aren't common with submerged pumps, but something strange is definitely going on with this system.

 

[MarkGP]

It almost sounds like something is wrong with the impeller in that pump. There is no way it should be making that much noise.

 

[cemyth]

That's typically how it works-- suction side leaks pull in air, pressure side leaks drip water. That's why return plumbing microbubbles aren't common with submerged pumps, but something strange is definitely going on with this system.

That is what I would think if there was a pinhole in the plumbing. What I don’t see is water coming out of any of the fittings.

The impeller doesn’t seem to be damaged. The extra mag 9.5 I have also sounds like this when fully throttled.

Just a thought - Could it be the size of the return chamber? 10 ½ x 12” x 10 ½”
Would the swirl from the pump be really noticeable or would it be very slow?

I hope I can find out what is causing this.

 

[MarkGP]

A pump that size doesn't create much pressure in the pvc. The speed of the water moving by a very small pinhole actually creates a vacuum and sucks in air kind of like those water changers that hook up to a faucet and siphon water from your tank.

 

[cemyth]

A pump that size doesn't create much pressure in the pvc. The speed of the water moving by a very small pinhole actually creates a vacuum and sucks in air kind of like those water changers that hook up to a faucet and siphon water from your tank.

Would the pinhole make the pump sound like it has rocks in it?

 

[Heliman]

If your pump has bad bearings or a bad shaft you may be getting the impellor just touching the casing at some point every revolution. This will give a lot of noise and seriously degrade the pumping capacity. Could even have worn the impellor enough to create internal cavitation (air is "sucked" out of the water...even without a leak to supply the air......common problem on boat props...especially subs )

 

[MarkGP]

Would the pinhole make the pump sound like it has rocks in it?

No. The bubbles from the pinhole and a bad impeller are 2 separate issues.

 

[OregonReefer2]

Lets try to narrow it down...

Take the pump out and put in a brute can with no plumbing or the sponge attached... If it makes excessive noise the pump is bad (I can't hear mine over the skimmer pump)

If doesn't make excessive noise something isn't plumbed properly

 

[cemyth]

Lets try to narrow it down...

Take the pump out and put in a brute can with no plumbing or the sponge attached... If it makes excessive noise the pump is bad (I can't hear mine over the skimmer pump)

If doesn't make excessive noise something isn't plumbed properly

I like that idea...I will give that a try tonight.