Help with a SPS 55g Restart!

[kissman]

As a lot of you know I started an extensive thread on the problems I have had with my SPS Colors. I thank all of you for the help. After a lot of thought and suggestions I think what I need to do is just remove all live stock, DSB, rock, etc... and just start over with fresh rock and fresh sand. I am going to go with a 1" sand bed and all new rock. I have a few questions. Is there a sand thats better for SPS or rock thats better? I was thinking of going with 1" Oolite and Pukani rock. Is there a certain amount per gallon of rock I should shoot for? I want to do this right the first time so please make all suggestions. I have been reading about aquascaping and I have an idea.

 

[Allmost]

Regarding sand, get the larger grain ones, sugar sized, they can stand the flow, and you can siphon them weekly.

amount of rock is not as important as the flow around and through them, so if you stack them on top they will trap detritus, and flow cant get in between. so do plan the rock placement and flow ahead of times, and then get as much rock to make your plan come to life. Get the FRESHEST Live rock you can find.

 

[kissman]

Is there a best practice in regarding or creating rock with the correct flow?

I am planning on ordering Pukani from BRS and maybe a few pieces of there reef saver. Soaking it for 24 hours in saltwater then testing PO4 and see if I need to do a LC treatment.

 

[Allmost]

for sand, after rinsing it, soak it in RO/DI water, changing the water every other day, untill po4 reads zero.

for best result, you should use Fresh LIVE rock, from the ocean. if you use used rock, or dry, you will be where you are now ... it will have po4 ...

you can make Islands, or structures, with room on front and back and both sides, and make sure you place power heads in a way that you get a nice flow Around and through the rock work.

a couple examples :
<a href="http://s1084.beta.photobucket.com/user/bigray1002/media/IMG-20110608-00271.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j416/bigray1002/IMG-20110608-00271.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG-20110608-00271.jpg"/></a>

<a href="http://s1084.beta.photobucket.com/user/bigray1002/media/IMG-20110608-00273.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j416/bigray1002/IMG-20110608-00273.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG-20110608-00273.jpg"/></a>

 

[kissman]

Would I still get PO4 leaching after treating with lanthanum chloride until the PO4 is zero? I will look into the sugar sized sand maybe go with Aragamax. Which I believe is sugar size.

 

[Allmost]

how long would that take ? a year ?

6 months ?

liquid po4 removers do not PULL out po4 .... they bond and precipitate the po4 in water column, and do a great job at it.

if thats what you want to do, why get new rock ?

 

[allabarton]

Is there a best practice in regarding or creating rock with the correct flow?

I am planning on ordering Pukani from BRS and maybe a few pieces of there reef saver. Soaking it for 24 hours in saltwater then testing PO4 and see if I need to do a LC treatment.

BRS suggest not to mix different rocks.
I have Pukani (very light and very porious). I bleached mine for 24 hours and than 15 minutes in the water with white vinegar.

I used EPO Putty to build columns. Here is my rock work.

 

[sirreal63]

Another option is to go with TBS rock, get the package and let Richard do his thing on picking rock for a 55. It is not the cheapest up front option, but for what you get it a very good value.

 

[rbp 4 135]

I agree that going with good LIVE rock would be the way to go with this restart. Since you still have live stock that will be needing to go back in the tank (i'm assuming) I would get rock that already has the necessary life established. You will get Po4 leaching from dry rock, everyone in my local club that has used it has run into this. It's not a big issue but it does take time upfront to remedy the situation. TBS would be a good choice for rock, lots of life and fresh.

 

[allabarton]

I will look into the sugar sized sand maybe go with Aragamax. Which I believe is sugar size.

If I had sugar size sand my power heads would blow it around for sure. Keep it in mined.
Tropic Eden Reeflakes Aragonite Sand looks really nice and clean. It says flakes but they don't look like flakes. And it stays put and I don't have sand tornados only if I turn my MP60 all way up.

 

[kissman]

TBS rock package is $609!!! 55g with 110 lbs of rock? would the fish have room to swim?

 

[sirreal63]

The rock is heavier so the weight is misleading. Richard can adjust the rock as needed. As far as the price, when you factor in all of the goodies you get and the amount of time it would take to get the same thing with dry rock, it is a bargain. If you haven't followed this thread, start at the beginning and see what TBS can do and in a fraction of the time.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2144250
If you went out and purchased all of the life that you get with the package, you will quickly see why it is a bargain. Go price so called live rock at your LFS and it becomes no contest.

 

[deepseadan]

For all my reefs I always got fresh rock with all its life, took it out of the box and scrubbed it down with a brush and saltwater. After a good cleaning it went straight into the tank. Over the next two months I just did plenty of water changes to keep everything happy. On my last tank I ran a gfo reactor part time to help out with my po4. No issues ever. I do say though, a 1" sandbed is a good depth. I don't recommend a gfo reactor unless you're very careful and cautious not to completely strip your water of po4 One more thing, remember that sps need stability, and I would wait a solid 6 months before adding any sps (as hard as it is).

 

[biggles]

I followed your other thread on the struggle with a stable tank. I really hope this time around you do as JPMagyar said - follow the KISS principle and don't over think things. I would urge you to cycle the tank and don't add fish until you are sure you have the nutrient cycle under control, it's a whole lot easier to deal with nutrient related issues when you are not committed to adding filth (food) to the tank for the well being of livestock.
I have always cycled with LR - it's not at all hard to deal with the odd pest that may be present such as a mantis or pistol shrimp etc while there is nothing but rock and sand in the tank. I add rock in 2 or 3 stages simply because i like to hand pick pieces that will suit my ideas for aquascaping. This time around i ended up putting 25lbs into the sump just because i read the minimalist aquascaping thread too late lol. Basically just don't stress yourself about what type of LR - get the best and freshest you can afford and don't go preparing for issues such as phos already - this is a fresh start and what happened in your last tank WILL NOT happen this time - there's a ton of people here like me who want to see you succeed because it's very obvious you love this hobby.
All i have done to my tank so far is top up evap with RO and keep cal, alk & Mg stable, i have about half a cup of Rowaphos in a mesh bag in the sump but can't actually test for phos yet - that's it. I am bad because i add corals as soon as i have cycled and my levels are under control with dosing. Half my SPS have been in the tank for 5 weeks and are encrusting and growing and coloring up better every week. I just added a skimmer a few days ago to get rid of the algae which is bad but no fish so no food and it's easy to keep it away from my corals. There are no nitrates and likely no phos as the majority will be bound up in the algae, the skimmer will deal with that in a few weeks and then it will be fish time - added slowly. Don't rush things i as do though, i have a serious impulse control problem when it comes to ignoring nice SPS for sale at the LFS when i get my NSW. :hmm2: but i hope you take a much less reactive approach this time around and reading your posts so far i get the distinct impression you are going into this a tad battle scarred from the last setup - don't, just listen to all the wisdom offered by very experienced reefers here (not me) and use the info that suits your fresh approach - you can't take everyone's advice so weigh up the info and make your choices and don't second guess yourself. As my father used to say - ' the more stuff you have the more there is to stuff up ' - KISS

Sorry for the long post but there is no reason you can't have a great SPS tank and i simply want to see you succeed, don't treat it like a chemistry test tube it's supposed to be enjoyable

 

[kissman]

Thanks for all the input so far. I agree that LR would be the best way to go. I am trying to do this as cheap as possible and still be successful as far as the live rock goes. I have a baby that will be here in May and money is tight, so I can't run out and spend $700 on live rock at the moment. Which is why I was planning on going with the dry Pukani from BRS. I have read lots of threads on the rock and the PO4 issues that some have had.

 

[kissman]

I wish there was a way I could do this and be able to keep the fish and anemone I have now. I hate the thought of giving them to my LFS there tanks are so bad, they are really a freshwater pet store trying to do saltwater every time I go in there I see dead stuff in tanks. There display tank at one point had hair algae so long and bad the clown fish were hosting it. LOL!

 

[Allmost]

you should make a plan first !

your first post sais you are after SPS colors.

your last post sais you want to keep your anemone and fish ?

why redo the tank if you are not going to keep SPS ?

Im lost ...

 

[kissman]

you should make a plan first !

your first post sais you are after SPS colors.

your last post sais you want to keep your anemone and fish ?

why redo the tank if you are not going to keep SPS ?

Im lost ...

1. This thread is me planning before I start.

2. I wish I could keep my fish and anemone

3. I have some one an hour away that can take my SPS unitl my tank has recycled, and is stable enough to reintorduce SPS later.

Sorry for the quick post I am at work.

 

[creefer01]

FWIW, I too started with dry BRS rock. I used tonga. It WILL leach PO4 for a long time if you don't do as allabarton suggested. I can, without question, say that the next tank I start will be started with fresh LR. It's difficult to consider the use of the TBS Package based solely on cost, but the long term benefit is so well worth it. It's likely how I'll do my next tank. There's simply far too many benefits to it despite the initial cost.

 

[kissman]

I have no doubt its better but it comes down to paying $150 to $700 at them moment