Help with plumbing

[dazed]

First time doing this so I want to make sure that this will work. Tank is a 40g and the sump is 15g. I will be using 1" dia. for the drain lines and 3/4" for the return. I tried to use the head loss calculator but I do not see the oceanrunner pump listed. The water will have to travel about 38" up to the display tank. Looking for comments and suggestions to my initial idea.

 

[russ49merc]

IMO you should just have it all go the first chamber. and then make it
skimmer -- refugium -- return

 

[dazed]

That was my original idea but the 15g sump gets crowded quick; by moving the return to the middle I can have the refugium wall be taller and better use the space that i have to work with.

 

[dazed]

bump

 

[russ49merc]

still think it should be the other way ..... good luck

 

[pjf]

Suggestions

Suggestions

• I would delete the “T” and the pipe that leads from the pump to the refugium zone. The return pump is able to take the back pressure from the ball valve that is used to reduce the flow. Deleting the “T” will leave more space for a refugium light fixture.

• I have no problem with your splitting the return flow to reduce turbulence in the skimmer and refugium zones. Alternatively, you can reduce turbulence by using a smaller return pump and placing powerheads in the aquarium for circulation.

• There is no need for a glass baffle between the return and refugium zones. The baffle will force you to replace water lost to evaporation more often. You can substitute a mesh tank divider such as those made by Lee’s and by Penn-Plax (http://www.petsmart.com/global/prod...ivider&In=Fish&previousText=divider&N=2023693). If you need to perform a water change, you can turn off the pump, remove the divider & chaetomorpha, and mix the solution in the refugium & return zones.

 

[GMAX]

Can you use a 45 instead of a 90 on the return line? Or flex pipe? Your loss will be less without any 90 degree elbows, since you are already fighting gravity it may be worth it.

I would not ball valve the return line either. If you are worried the overflow wont take the volume use a smaller pump. But get as much flow as possible from the return. Just me maybe.

 

[dwl]

Hi there, I know I am a newbie, but here's my $.02...
I just went through this very thing. I had mine set up basically the same as your diagram only my refugium is a separate 10g tank that is higher than my 15g sump. I had it plumbed with a tee on the overflow and a ball valve to control the refugium's flow. The refugium gravity feeds into the sump.

I was reading some of Anthony Calfo's comments on the matter, and he says that you generally should not put water directly from the overflow into the refugium, but rather water that is already "skimmed". After looking at it for a bit, mine is now plumbed more like your second diagram.

If you remove the tee from the overflow, and keep the tee on the return, you can accomplish everything you want. You will feed the refugium from the return pump, using "skimmed" water, and will not be putting nutrient-rich (unskimmed) water into your refugium.

If you still have too much pump and are flowing more water through the sump/fuge (my problem), then you can either go with a smaller pump, or you can tee it (3-way tee?) and pump it back into the RETURN area (not the fuge).

HTH

David

 

[steelerguy]

I think the refugium in the middle is a bad idea since you are flowing so much water through the sump. I like that you have split it off so you can really slow down the flow in the refugium.

Your return pump is pretty beefy. If you take the standard 3-5x turnover of your display, even with head loss, you are way over that.

I like that you have a divider between return and refugium. I am guessing you are going to run the water level high in there than you would be able to in the skimmer zone, so you would have to do that.

I also liked GMAX suggestion of flex PVC on the return, although your pump could probably take the head loss and still be moving a lot of water through your sump.

 

[dazed]

A big thank you to everyone for their comments and suggestions it's nice to be able to bounce ideas around.

pjf; I can see what you are saying about the tee but I do not understand why I would not need the last baffle that you are talking about if I chose to use any kind of substrate in that area I need the baffle to keep it away from the return pump.

Gmax; great idea on the flex I know that a min. of 90's is best and at this point I would only have one, and the use the loc-line to come over the top and into the tank.

dwl; do you have the link that you read about on Anthony's Calfo's suggestion: I thought I had read that feeding the refugium with some raw water is a good thing??
I could return the water to the return section instead of the fuge, what if I flipped the design and fed the skimmer section instead??

steelerguy; I'm figuring that the pump would be pushing about 475gph straight up; higher than the 250gph target number yes but that is where the split in the return would come in handy.

If I was to use a smaller return pump what would you guys recommend? I do have a rio 2100 I just liked the fact that the oceanrunner comes ready to accept 3/4" pipe.

This is where the idea of spliting the return came from:
http://www.melevsreef.com/what_sump.html
http://www.melevsreef.com/return.jpg

specs for the pump are found here:
http://www.aqua-medic.com/products/docs/OR_Pumps.pdf

Anyone else want to chime in please feel free.

 

[dwl]

dazed,
The only one I could quickly find is this http://forum.marinedepot.com/Topic66314-13-1.aspx
If I get a chance, I will find the much more detailed thread where he basically told someone who had his design similar to what you (and I) had that they should consider moving the refugium feed water from directly from the display tank (nutrient rich) to after the skimmer.

Good luck

OK, I found what I was talking about.
http://forum.marinedepot.com/Topic20039-13-13.aspx
It is in a RDSB thread on page 13. Am I misunderstanding what he is saying?

HTH

 

[dazed]

dwl;
Thanks for the info; guess i have some more reading to do tonight anyone else want to share their ideas or comments.

 

[pjf]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9876081#post9876081 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dazed
pjf; I can see what you are saying about the tee but I do not understand why I would not need the last baffle that you are talking about if I chose to use any kind of substrate in that area I need the baffle to keep it away from the return pump.

You are correct that a substrate will require a baffle in place. I use floating chaetomorpha for macroalgae filtration with no substrate. Since I have a deep sand bed in my main aquarium, I saw no need for a substrate in my refugium.

 

[dazed]

dwl; well i read the articles at least the portion that seemed to go with what we are talking about and it does seem that he says it is best to run all drain water passed the skimmer section first. What i am thinking about doing though is running only a small portion of water to that section anyways enough to promote at least the surface of the water to be agiated; I just can't see how that would hurt anything at all; it's not like the skimmer is going to process all of the return water anyways it can only process what the skimmer pump manages to grab; the majority of the water is going to go right on past the skimmer anyways.

 

[dazed]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9881909#post9881909 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by pjf
You are correct that a substrate will require a baffle in place. I use floating chaetomorpha for macroalgae filtration with no substrate. Since I have a deep sand bed in my main aquarium, I saw no need for a substrate in my refugium.

yeah i was pretty sure that was what you meant but thought i would check anyways. I still can't decide if i want to add a substrate to this or not; I only have about a 2" sandbed in the display tank; choices choices...

 

[dazed]

So should i use a smaller pump?

 

[dwl]

I assume that you are going to be feeding the refugium with the water from the drain side rather than the return side, right?

I really think you should reconsider this, it is no different as far a plumbing is concerned, and you will be feeding your refugium with as nutrient free water as you are able, my $.02.

As for the pump, I think whether or not you get microbubbles will let you know if you need to change to a smaller pump. Too much flow through the sump will (can) generate microbubbles.

HTH