Help with SPS color

I think if your rock was leaching out phosphates your gfo would pull it out. OTS is a very generic term, which sort of means "I don't know what is going on and I quit". At least, that is how I read it. Understandably, we have all been there. :)
 
We will see what the PO4 is tomorrow I did a 5g water change today. Tomorrow I will run all tests. I do need to order more Hanna Phosphorous ULR Reagents I think I am down to 1 or 2 but I do have the Red Sea Pro PO4 kit too. I will post all test results tomorrow
 
I will try to explain my thoughts on lack of bio diversity with this great article:
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-07/mvd/index.php


Maintain Biodiversity

The more biodiverse an ecosystem is, the more stable it is. As species go extinct, not only is that organism lost forever, but it contributes to the destabilization of the ecosystem it inhabited. All organisms fulfill a role or "niche" in an environment. In a sense, they all work together to make the system work. The same principles apply to an aquarium. One way diversity increases stability is by increasing the complexity of the food webs and nutrient pathways. As aquarists rely more and more on natural forms of filtration such as deep sand beds, live rock, and macroalgae-filled refugiums, they are beginning to understand the importance of biodiversity.

I can remember a time when bristle worms were the bane of every reef keeper's existence. Now, we admire them fondly as "detritivores." A deep sand bed would not function properly without the presence of various detritivores to break down large organic particles in order to make this material available to bacteria and smaller organisms. Other fauna contribute by breaking up bacterial clumps and inorganic material. There are also "critters" that contribute to the health of the tank by grazing on algae or perhaps acting as a food source for corals and fish. Unfortunately, many of these critters eventually dwindle and disappear from the tank over time. Predation from fish and corals, competition from other critters, and random catastrophic events (like a wild temperature swing from a failing air conditioner) all contribute to the disappearance of these beneficial critters from the reef aquarium. There are many steps an aquarist can make to alleviate this loss of diversity.

One popular method to increase biodiversity is to add a refugium. By definition, a refugium is an area where organisms are allowed to thrive without the presence of predators. This could be a separate tank or even a section of the sump. Today, manufacturers are making hang-on-the-back refugium units for aquariums. A refugium may alleviate the predation problem for the organisms found there, but what about the competition and random catastrophic events?
click here for full size picture
Refugiums such as the one above are relatively simple to add on to existing systems, and are an effective way to maintain faunal biodiversity in a reef aquarium.

In natural ecosystems, there is immigration and emigration. Many organisms will move from one area to another. If something catastrophic occurs and destroys a whole population of trees or birds in a given habitat, neighboring communities can help recolonize the area. In a reef tank, this does not occur. Despite having a refugium to mimic some of this recolonization, a reef tank is still a closed system. Consider a tank as a very remote island. It is isolated. If a particular population of organisms is eliminated from the tank and refugium, there is no way for that type of organism to recolonize the tank...unless the reefkeeper steps in.

I personally think it is good practice to play Mother Nature from time to time and restock the tank with micro- and meiofauna. Many online stores carry detritivore "kits," which would allow one to re-establish some of these critters in a reef aquarium. Another way is to replace a couple of pieces of old live rock with fresh (cured) rock. The new live rock can aid in reintroducing some of the lost populations. Unfortunately, there is also a risk of reintroducing nuisance organisms, but I think the benefits far outweigh the risks.

Choosing fish wisely is another good way to maintain diversity. Reducing the amount of predatory fish will certainly help. Feeding more heavily and providing a variety of food types and sizes will contribute to sustaining a diverse reef, by meeting the nutrient demands of more organisms. Support of this suggestion is found in the various comments I hear from aquarists that begin feeding plankton substitutes. They notice an increase in many organisms, from sponges to microfauna.

Perhaps the reader may feel that the suggestion of maintaining biodiversity conflicts with the suggestion of keeping less corals, but many corals tend to fill the same or similar niches. By maintaining diversity, I refer to the goal of filling and maintaining a large variety of niches.
Simulate Storms

Detritus builds up in areas of the tank despite our efforts to maintain large populations of detritivores, strong current, and proper filtration. In a closed reef aquarium, it may even become a problem. Some suggest that long-term accumulation of detritus can lead to mysterious algae problems. Others suggest that detritus can also clog the porous live rock in our system, reducing the surface area on which bacteria, sponges, and other filter feeders settle. I'm not entirely sure if these concerns are legitimate, but I personally think it is beneficial to occasionally simulate the action of storms with large powerheads and other devices to remove detritus build-up. I also try to occasionally manage stagnant areas with a turkey baster when doing water changes. Stirring up the detritus is also a good way to feed your corals. I would, however, recommend only disturbing small pockets of detritus. Disturbing large sinks of detritus, such as stirring a deep sand bed, can have catastrophic effects on the tank. Releasing large amounts of detritus will also release large densities of aerobic bacteria and microbes into the water column. These organisms may use up a lot of the free oxygen in the water column thereby reducing the overall oxygen levels in the tank. The freeing of large amounts of organic material may also cause an algae bloom down the road.
 
brad65ford said:
I will try to explain my thoughts on lack of bio diversity with this great article:
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-07/mvd/index.php


Maintain Biodiversity

The more biodiverse an ecosystem is, the more stable it is. As species go extinct, not only is that organism lost forever, but it contributes to the destabilization of the ecosystem it inhabited. All organisms fulfill a role or "niche" in an environment. In a sense, they all work together to make the system work. The same principles apply to an aquarium. One way diversity increases stability is by increasing the complexity of the food webs and nutrient pathways. As aquarists rely more and more on natural forms of filtration such as deep sand beds, live rock, and macroalgae-filled refugiums, they are beginning to understand the importance of biodiversity.

I can remember a time when bristle worms were the bane of every reef keeper's existence. Now, we admire them fondly as "detritivores." A deep sand bed would not function properly without the presence of various detritivores to break down large organic particles in order to make this material available to bacteria and smaller organisms. Other fauna contribute by breaking up bacterial clumps and inorganic material. There are also "critters" that contribute to the health of the tank by grazing on algae or perhaps acting as a food source for corals and fish. Unfortunately, many of these critters eventually dwindle and disappear from the tank over time. Predation from fish and corals, competition from other critters, and random catastrophic events (like a wild temperature swing from a failing air conditioner) all contribute to the disappearance of these beneficial critters from the reef aquarium. There are many steps an aquarist can make to alleviate this loss of diversity.

One popular method to increase biodiversity is to add a refugium. By definition, a refugium is an area where organisms are allowed to thrive without the presence of predators. This could be a separate tank or even a section of the sump. Today, manufacturers are making hang-on-the-back refugium units for aquariums. A refugium may alleviate the predation problem for the organisms found there, but what about the competition and random catastrophic events?
click here for full size picture
Refugiums such as the one above are relatively simple to add on to existing systems, and are an effective way to maintain faunal biodiversity in a reef aquarium.

In natural ecosystems, there is immigration and emigration. Many organisms will move from one area to another. If something catastrophic occurs and destroys a whole population of trees or birds in a given habitat, neighboring communities can help recolonize the area. In a reef tank, this does not occur. Despite having a refugium to mimic some of this recolonization, a reef tank is still a closed system. Consider a tank as a very remote island. It is isolated. If a particular population of organisms is eliminated from the tank and refugium, there is no way for that type of organism to recolonize the tank...unless the reefkeeper steps in.

I personally think it is good practice to play Mother Nature from time to time and restock the tank with micro- and meiofauna. Many online stores carry detritivore "kits," which would allow one to re-establish some of these critters in a reef aquarium. Another way is to replace a couple of pieces of old live rock with fresh (cured) rock. The new live rock can aid in reintroducing some of the lost populations. Unfortunately, there is also a risk of reintroducing nuisance organisms, but I think the benefits far outweigh the risks.

Choosing fish wisely is another good way to maintain diversity. Reducing the amount of predatory fish will certainly help. Feeding more heavily and providing a variety of food types and sizes will contribute to sustaining a diverse reef, by meeting the nutrient demands of more organisms. Support of this suggestion is found in the various comments I hear from aquarists that begin feeding plankton substitutes. They notice an increase in many organisms, from sponges to microfauna.

Perhaps the reader may feel that the suggestion of maintaining biodiversity conflicts with the suggestion of keeping less corals, but many corals tend to fill the same or similar niches. By maintaining diversity, I refer to the goal of filling and maintaining a large variety of niches.
Simulate Storms

Detritus builds up in areas of the tank despite our efforts to maintain large populations of detritivores, strong current, and proper filtration. In a closed reef aquarium, it may even become a problem. Some suggest that long-term accumulation of detritus can lead to mysterious algae problems. Others suggest that detritus can also clog the porous live rock in our system, reducing the surface area on which bacteria, sponges, and other filter feeders settle. I'm not entirely sure if these concerns are legitimate, but I personally think it is beneficial to occasionally simulate the action of storms with large powerheads and other devices to remove detritus build-up. I also try to occasionally manage stagnant areas with a turkey baster when doing water changes. Stirring up the detritus is also a good way to feed your corals. I would, however, recommend only disturbing small pockets of detritus. Disturbing large sinks of detritus, such as stirring a deep sand bed, can have catastrophic effects on the tank. Releasing large amounts of detritus will also release large densities of aerobic bacteria and microbes into the water column. These organisms may use up a lot of the free oxygen in the water column thereby reducing the overall oxygen levels in the tank. The freeing of large amounts of organic material may also cause an algae bloom down the road.
Click to expand...

Great read thanks!

I do have a pod condo in my sump/fuge. Every few weeks I take it out and shake it in my DT. I also about once a year when I order new snails from reefcleaners.org I always get 2 bags of mixed pods I also have a ton of micro stars.
 
That's what you got out of that? Give a looks at the whole article which brings up a ton of thoughts including different type of species together and a bunch of awesome other things not mention yet in this thread. I just copied the info about diversity since I think your live rock most likely does not have as much life as it did or could and or bound. But again its just a guess. Heck we haven't even touched on different bacteria strains as well yet:rollface:

Sad to say I'm really here on this thread to discuss not only your issue but most peoples issues their after tanks loose their.... humm how do you say it.. Strength?? Health??? youghness (not a word) etc.. Its really very common.

Have you ever had SPS corals before and did they do well?
 
I think the biodiversity thing is a little over emphasized in this scenario.

There are many tanks that are set up with dry rock, and frags, and clearly no biodiversity, but yet they are very successful.

I think SPS color is a matter of balancing nutrients and lighting. If you have strong lighting, you need to balance that with the correct amount of fuel for growth. that fuel being small amounts of phosphates and nitrates.

If I run too much GFO, my corals get light. If I stop feeding my fish, my corals get lighter.

If I lower my light intensity (time or par) the corals get darker. If I feed my fish more, corals color up

ULNS tanks are pale because they get pounded with light, but have very little nutrients. that why you have to dose AA and other additives.
 
brad65ford said:
That's what you got out of that? Give a looks at the whole article which brings up a ton of thoughts including different type of species together and a bunch of awesome other things not mention yet in this thread. I just copied the info about diversity since I think your live rock most likely does not have as much life as it did or could and or bound. But again its just a guess. Heck we haven't even touched on different bacteria strains as well yet:rollface:

Sad to say I'm really here on this thread to discuss not only your issue but most peoples issues their after tanks loose their.... humm how do you say it.. Strength?? Health??? youghness (not a word) etc.. Its really very common.

Have you ever had SPS corals before and did they do well?
Click to expand...


I have not read the article just what you posted, was using iPhone, I will read the article this morning as soon as I wake and get coffee in so I can think, LOL!This is the first time I have kept SPS. I put them in back at the end of July beginning of August.
 
Give it a good read, its a great article which make you think about many different aspects of reefing.

defiantly start with some monti's they are much easier starter sps corals that can live in many different (off perfect) conditions. If you were local I would give some for free.
 
mc-cro said:
I think the biodiversity thing is a little over emphasized in this scenario.

There are many tanks that are set up with dry rock, and frags, and clearly no biodiversity, but yet they are very successful.

I think SPS color is a matter of balancing nutrients and lighting. If you have strong lighting, you need to balance that with the correct amount of fuel for growth. that fuel being small amounts of phosphates and nitrates.

If I run too much GFO, my corals get light. If I stop feeding my fish, my corals get lighter.

If I lower my light intensity (time or par) the corals get darker. If I feed my fish more, corals color up

ULNS tanks are pale because they get pounded with light, but have very little nutrients. that why you have to dose AA and other additives.
Click to expand...


I was not dosing AA but I have started in the last week. When I dose Energy A&B I cut all powerheads and skimmer off for 15 min. I use a turkey baster to form a yello cloud around each coral. I was runningh GFO heavy, I have lowered my light time to 8 hours (1st hour 2 bulbs come on, the all 6 bulbs and 4 bulbs cut off and leave 2 on for the final 1 hour). I do plan on ramping it back up to 10 or 12. I am going to add 1 hour a week with the new bulbs that were put in Friday night. I am also trying to raise PO4 and NO3 a little.
 
still following the thread. Just a thought. If one were to make too many changes or adjustments to there tank and have positive or negative results it would be tough to figure out what change caused the change.

I have recents added an ATS and taken my filter sock offline. I have also increased feeding. Polyp extension has all ready improved noticably! Color improvement next i hope.

i still have carbon and gfo to remove and hope to do so in the future. if not remove then at lease reduce in volume.

I am resisteing the urge to do any changes to my lighting (for now)
 
Here are the test results this morning. Not sure why Mag is high havent added any in several weeks. Might be the salt? Salinity is a little high but I will drain some water out a few times today and add RO/DI and bring that back down to 35ppt

Temp 79
Mag 1540 (Red Sea Pro)
Nitrates .75 (Red Sea Pro)
Phosphates .04 (Red Sea Pro) Need to order reagents for HC 736
ALK 9.01 dkh (Hanna HC 755 Digital)
Calcium 480 (Red Sea Pro)
Salinity 36ppt AKC Refractometer)
PH 8.1 (Lights are off)
 
still following the thread. Just a thought. If one were to make too many changes or adjustments to there tank and have positive or negative results it would be tough to figure out what change caused the change.

I have recents added an ATS and taken my filter sock offline. I have also increased feeding. Polyp extension has all ready improved noticably! Color improvement next i hope.

i still have carbon and gfo to remove and hope to do so in the future. if not remove then at lease reduce in volume.

I am resisteing the urge to do any changes to my lighting (for now)
 
likefish said:
still following the thread. Just a thought. If one were to make too many changes or adjustments to there tank and have positive or negative results it would be tough to figure out what change caused the change.

I have recents added an ATS and taken my filter sock offline. I have also increased feeding. Polyp extension has all ready improved noticably! Color improvement next i hope.

i still have carbon and gfo to remove and hope to do so in the future. if not remove then at lease reduce in volume.

I am resisteing the urge to do any changes to my lighting (for now)
Click to expand...

I agree with you 100%. I have not really made that many changes per say. My bulbs were 12 months old so I had to replace them. I am really just trying to add nutrients to the tank. In order to do that I have taken GAC, GFO, and vinegar offline. Since feeding heavier I have also noticed better PE and I to hope color is next for you and for me. We will see in time. I am trying to raise my NO3 to 1-2ppm and I have PO3 where they need to be now. If they start getting much higher I might add 1/2 the amount of GFO I was running before and try to keep them at .04ppm.
 
One suggestion i am thinking about is adding fish, but what should i add? If i do!i have 2 Green Chromis, 1 six line wrasse, 1 yellow stripe maroon, 1 royal gramma, and a diamond gobie
 
I was gonna post a pick of my Garf Bonsai but with the new lights my iPhone is to blue and my DSLR at my girlfriends house in Lynchburg so I will have to wait and post the pic next week. I think I am starting to see some purple again. Its def darker than it was. Hope its coming back around!

Question though is there a way to tell if you have enough flow, to much flow or not enough flow?
 
kissman said:
Question though is there a way to tell if you have enough flow, to much flow or not enough flow?
Click to expand...

Yes, you have to observe the corals you have in the tank.

You have to have 50x tank volume of flow in an SPS

50x? No you have to have 100x!

100x??....why....why...Ive blown apart the seems on my tank before with flow, and THAT wasn't even enough!!!!

:rolleye1:

It comes down to that ellusive "random movement" everyone talks about. If you take a look at all the nice SPS tanks on this forum they all appear to have similar setups when it comes to flow:

Seaswirls used on most returns

Vortech or Tunze on controllers

Limited dead spots

Hope this helps.
 
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