Help! Zoas closed???

R

Reefgo

New member
I have 75 gal with sump good skimmer, has been set up and running for 4 mo. with no problems. Ammonia 0, Nitrates 0, Cal 920, Mag low and alk. normal, PH has flucuated. I had put a metal fish trap into the tank with silverfish bait to try to catch a bully fish and the next day all my zoas were closed and mushrooms shrunk. Fish are fine. I tested ph and is was high for my usual it was 8.5 which my tank has never been that high. I took the cage out and did a 8 gal water change. That changed the ph back to around 7.8. A few zoas are now half open. I did another water change the next day and while I was at it took all rocks and coral out and caught the bully. I replaced everything and today only some zoas are open. Is my tank crashing or what is going on? I have some sps that look ok. Any advice welcome! I kinda new at this.
Thanks
Reefgo
 
You way up on your Cal ( ave running is 450 )
Mag should be around 1300
pH 8.0-8.2
DKH 8-10
Sal 1.024-1.026

Polyps are very reactive to pH/alk/Salinity issues. What kinda test kits are you using?
 
salifert
Ca-310
Mg-900
KH-8.7
Sal-1.025
Ph shot up after putting wire cage in to 8.5 which is was at 7.8
 
I know my cal and mag are low. All the zoas were open and doing well at those levels. I have been working on raising the Ca and Mg. I had only dosed 21 mg of 2 part and Mag. Last week and the Ca went to 355 mag went to 930 but when I tested again this week after the cage thing they were back down. What can happen with that Ph swing? Do you think the metal cause a PH swing?
 
Don't know, When you top off with RO water try adding some of those additives that raise your pH to 8.3 that's what I do to keep my pH up.
 
Ok. I will start doing that. I guess since setting up my tank I have been scared to raise the parameters to quickly. Corals and fish were doing great and I planed to raise them very slowly but since this happened I guess I need to get them up and steady. I do know the ph flucuated and the zoos did not like the swing. Im not sure how they will handle dosing up.
 
How much B-ionc should I add to a 85 gal. total. I was thinking 21 ml. Since my KH is 8.7 sould I skip the dose of alk. and just dose the cal. and mg. I do have a bottle of buffer should I add that too?
 
If you have a sump pour the solution ( Ro/mixed with the additive pH 8.3 ) in there. If you don't like my self, I just slowly pour the mix into an area of the tank that doesn't have much coral in.
 
You can find the dosage here http://reef.diesyst.com/chemcalc/chemcalc.html
I agree with raising your calcium and magnesium up slowly. If my memory serves me right, 20 ppm per day is the recommended maximum. So it would be better to divide the total dosage into small amounts for one week or something like that. I had dosed too much mag too fast and my corals didn't like that. I'm not sure about the impact of low cal and mag on zoas but your SPS will definitely suffer.

Taking all your rocks out will very likely cause a mini-cycle, so watch your ammonia and nitrite closely if you just did that recently. PH fluctuation between lights on and off is normal but from 8.5 to 7.8 is a bit too drastic. I'd suspect it's because of the metal you put in. If it's not stainless steel, I'm sure there's chemical reaction going on with the metal. Even stainless steel could rust with saltwater IME.

Zoas generally speaking are hardy. As long as you are improving your water condition, they should recover no problem. Just remember to be patient and don't pour a whole bottle of whatever to bring up the parameters to the ideal numbers then you would be fine. You have good concepts and that's a good sign.
 
Thanks so much for the awesome help. I am trying to go slow with fixing this problem. And you are totally right about the mini cycle cause the water is fogged up like a cycle. I am getting ready to do testing for everything. I will post that when Im done. I just hope they pull through cause some are melting already:( So you guys are saying it would be more benifical to slowly try to go ahead and get the cal and mg up even with all that is already going on to stress the zoos out right now? Im using B- ionic 2 part by company ESV and I mixed my own mag. using 2 cups per gallon of epsom salt. I figured about 21 ml on each to dose at a time. Does this sound right?
 
No3-0
NH3-0
NO2-0
Cal.-335 (this is low right?)
Mg.-960 (this is low right?)
KH-8.6 (this is to high right?)
PH-7.8 or a little higher ( this is slighty low right?)
So looks like the alk. is high and PH is maybe slightly low and Cal. and Mg. are low.
In the artical I read on cal and mg. it said dont raise it if the cal is 300 or more. I need to so some more reading. How do you get the alk. down?
 
I believe some would say it's fine to do both at the same time but personally, I prefer tackling one problem at a time cause things happen when you least expect them. If you have too many things on your plate, a chaos is more likely to happen. I assume you have fish in the tank. The mini cycle could stress the fish, weaken their immunity and kill your corals. So I'll say deal with the cycle first.

To help your tank through the cycle fast, replenishing the bacteria population is the only way. I've used Prodibio BIO DIGEST with good success and IME it can shorten the cycle a lot. Many people also use Brightwell Aquatics MicroBacter7 with good results but I've never tried it so can't compare the two. One thing to notice is after adding the bacteria, your PH will drop below the normal fluctuation. It's because bacteria consume lots of oxygen to reproduce. Your PH is already at the lowest safty range so my solution would be dosing kalkwasser. 650-IS350 suggested a good brand for you already.
A couple reasons for the choice. Dosing Kalkwasser will have short-term effect on raising the PH. So dripping it into your sump slowly at night can help prevent PH swinging down to the dangerous level. The second reason has something to do with your fish. As I mentioned before, your fish might become susceptible to parasites due to the cycle. Dosing kalkwasser can prevent ich infestation. Yeah, you heard me right. It's not scientifically proven but some hobbyist tips like high mag level kills hair algae. It's been extensively tried out by hobbyists in the country I come from with high success rate and it can even reverse a minor ich outbreak. I've tried this several times personally with success. As a side benefit, dosing kalk will bring up your cal and alk too.
To do this, drip kalk saturate solution into your sump or high flow area at night at about 1-2 drops per second for a total of 1/4 gallon for 3 consecutive days. By that time, your bacteria population should have already re-established. Then you can test and adjust your parameters using your B-ionic.
 
okay, you posted new parameters when I was writing my essay.:p Your KH is a little high compared to your cal level but no need to lower it. Just bring up CA and MAG and you'll be fine. Dose only the calcium part of the two part before your cal is within the desired range.
 
Ok, so let me get this strait. I need to get Bio Digest for the cycle once I do that then that night start dosing kalkwasser 1-2 drops per second until I reach 1/4 a gallon for 3 days only at night not during the day. Then reeval. all parameters and hopefully the the ph will be up slightly and cycle complete, cal and alk will be up slightly so then I just need to worry about alk being to high. Doesnt that really bother zoos?
 
Ok so this is what I bought tell me what you think. It is on ground shopping purchaced at 5:50 pm from Mariene Depot.
Prodibio BIO DIGEST - 6 Vials

Brightwell Aquatics Kalk+2 - Advanced Kalkwasser Supplement 100g / 3.5oz

Tom Aquatics Aqua Lifter Dosing Pump

Tom Aquatics Aqua Lifter Suction Pre-Filter
 
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