High nitrates
- Thread starter Croff
- Start date
plyle02
Active member
Everything seems fine, the skimmer looks to be pulling wet, see if you can adjust to not skim as hard, that is very much key to getting nutrients balanced on the Probiotic based system, otherwise if too wet, you may be skimming out all the things you are dosing. The siporax setup looks good, when that kicks in, you will be running very low, so make sure you are feeding well to the tank. All in all, the tank is beautiful, and has tons of potential. Nice job, the setup looks great!
Hello again,
Nothing has changed in the last 4 weeks, the same nitrates and phosphates (16 and 0,3) measured with different brand tests; two drops Pro Bio S and NP Pro for 130 liters total water, plus Coral A, V, B, E; one liter of Siporax for the last 2 months and some new additions, Zeo Mix and Phosphate Minus added last week each inside a bag in the sump.
How long do you think will take for me to notice the reduction in nitrates and phosphates after adding them? I understand one week won't be enough, but still can't understand where those high levels came from and don't know what else to do...
As always, thank you in advance for your help
Nothing has changed in the last 4 weeks, the same nitrates and phosphates (16 and 0,3) measured with different brand tests; two drops Pro Bio S and NP Pro for 130 liters total water, plus Coral A, V, B, E; one liter of Siporax for the last 2 months and some new additions, Zeo Mix and Phosphate Minus added last week each inside a bag in the sump.
How long do you think will take for me to notice the reduction in nitrates and phosphates after adding them? I understand one week won't be enough, but still can't understand where those high levels came from and don't know what else to do...
As always, thank you in advance for your help
Myka
Reefing since '93
I can understand the NO3 and PO4 readings affecting the few SPS negatively, but the LPS should not have issue with the numbers you've reported at all. I'm not familiar with the Red Sea Reefers series, but your photos look to me like you are lighting with LEDs? If so, which LEDs are you using and what are the settings and length of photoperiod? Have you taken any PAR readings? Do you handfeed any of your LPS? Struggling LPS really get a boost from a couple thawed mysis shrimp every 2-3 days.
One last thing, have you watched the tank from a distance and checked that the Flame Angelfish is not picking at corals? Dwarf Angelfish you have about a 50/50 chance of them biting corals. I had one that was well behaved for about a year, and then he start to bite all my corals, but it was a 90-gallon tank chock full of SPS corals and he bit them all so the focus wasn't on just a few, and the corals could handle it they just didn't have very good polyp extension.
One last thing, have you watched the tank from a distance and checked that the Flame Angelfish is not picking at corals? Dwarf Angelfish you have about a 50/50 chance of them biting corals. I had one that was well behaved for about a year, and then he start to bite all my corals, but it was a 90-gallon tank chock full of SPS corals and he bit them all so the focus wasn't on just a few, and the corals could handle it they just didn't have very good polyp extension.
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You are right, my corals having problems are mostly SPS. The only LPS receding was one acanthastrea, that finally died 3 days ago. I was hand feeding regularly as some of my other corals, but it was not extending its polyps as it used to do.
I'm using one Kessil A360W which I had for a long time (also used in my previous tank) with no changes in length of photoperiod since the beginning, and that same acanthastrea was growing noticeable before I changed to AF; the rest of my corals seemed to also like it.
Everything is pointing to high nitrates/phosphates, but I'm struggling to lower them, which never was a problem with my previous tank and NOPOX... Let's see if in a few days of using Zeo mix and Phosphate minus things change. Would you recommend to stop using Coral A,V, B, E until nutrients decrease? Right now I'm using 1 drop every other day.
And yes, I knew of the potential problems with the flame angel, but as far as I know, it's not touching anything.
I'm using one Kessil A360W which I had for a long time (also used in my previous tank) with no changes in length of photoperiod since the beginning, and that same acanthastrea was growing noticeable before I changed to AF; the rest of my corals seemed to also like it.
Everything is pointing to high nitrates/phosphates, but I'm struggling to lower them, which never was a problem with my previous tank and NOPOX... Let's see if in a few days of using Zeo mix and Phosphate minus things change. Would you recommend to stop using Coral A,V, B, E until nutrients decrease? Right now I'm using 1 drop every other day.
And yes, I knew of the potential problems with the flame angel, but as far as I know, it's not touching anything.
Myka
Reefing since '93
I think that having to rely on significant carbon dosing (NOPOX) to keep nutrients low is probably a sign that you're lacking in the husbandry department. Maybe you aren't doing effective waterchanges or maybe your equipment isn't up to snuff or maybe you're feeding more than your system can handle. Your system has more nutrients going in than going out. Maybe it will balance out as Perry suggests or maybe you need to take a harder look at your husbandry.
I do think that cutting back or cutting out on the Coral A, V, E, and B might be a good idea for now. The point of those additives is to provide nutrients to the corals in a low nutrient environment, and if your water column is already full of nutrients I don't see why you should add more.
I do think that cutting back or cutting out on the Coral A, V, E, and B might be a good idea for now. The point of those additives is to provide nutrients to the corals in a low nutrient environment, and if your water column is already full of nutrients I don't see why you should add more.
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I'm sure you are right, but I thought 1-2 ml of NOPOX daily for a 150 liters system was not really significant, it's almost the minimum quantity you can use according to instructions. And with that quantity nitrates were 2-3 and phosphates 0,02-0,03. What is clear, as you said, is that there are more nutrients going in than out, I just have to discover why and do something about it. What still annoys me is that that nutrient spike happened when I changed to AF, not before... Maybe the system was unstable and the nutrient spike was going to happen anyway, or maybe there is a problem with my Pro Bio S bottle for whatever reason (I'll buy a new one, just to try), I don't know, but I'll keep trying...
I will also cut out Coral A, V, B, E and see if it has any effect.
Thank you again for your help
I will also cut out Coral A, V, B, E and see if it has any effect.
Thank you again for your help
plyle02
Active member
Croff,
I know it is frustrating, but if you look over my thread, I gave insight into the fact that husbandry is more important than dosing. Patience is always rewarded in the hobby, especially with sps corals. Personally, I would evaluate the skimmer first, is it up to the challenge, meaning is it capable of at least twice system volume? Next, is there detritus building in the sump? Are you feeding fish and seeing food uneaten? A system that pushes the limits needs sound practices, regular water changes with 0.00 RODI, top off with RODI always 0.00 tds. Regular basting of rocks and disturbance of sand, but most importantly, a skimmer that pulls it out quickly.
I know it is frustrating, but if you look over my thread, I gave insight into the fact that husbandry is more important than dosing. Patience is always rewarded in the hobby, especially with sps corals. Personally, I would evaluate the skimmer first, is it up to the challenge, meaning is it capable of at least twice system volume? Next, is there detritus building in the sump? Are you feeding fish and seeing food uneaten? A system that pushes the limits needs sound practices, regular water changes with 0.00 RODI, top off with RODI always 0.00 tds. Regular basting of rocks and disturbance of sand, but most importantly, a skimmer that pulls it out quickly.
Hello Perry,
To tell you the truth, I've been considering changing my skimmer more then once... It's the only different thing from my previous build ( I had a Bubble Magus Curve 5 ) and I'm not really happy with it. It's a Deltec 1351 with adjustable DC pump and supposed to work in aquariums from 350 to 600 liters depending on stocking (mine is 170 liters total, not counting rocks).
There is some detritus building in the sump, but it's not that much and I clean it every week with water changes. Only feed my fishes once a day and they seem to eat everything and my RODI tds is 0 according to two different tests. Just the same I did in the past with good results, except the skimmer, so that may be the problem
Thanks
To tell you the truth, I've been considering changing my skimmer more then once... It's the only different thing from my previous build ( I had a Bubble Magus Curve 5 ) and I'm not really happy with it. It's a Deltec 1351 with adjustable DC pump and supposed to work in aquariums from 350 to 600 liters depending on stocking (mine is 170 liters total, not counting rocks).
There is some detritus building in the sump, but it's not that much and I clean it every week with water changes. Only feed my fishes once a day and they seem to eat everything and my RODI tds is 0 according to two different tests. Just the same I did in the past with good results, except the skimmer, so that may be the problem
Thanks
plyle02
Active member
Please post a video or picture of the skimmer in action, I am curious to see what kind of collection you are getting. Thanks
https://vimeo.com/180717159
I cleaned the skimmer cup two days ago after my last water change, and the whole skimmer 10 days ago, so I think it hasn't settle down yet. It's skimming a bit wet, I believe
I cleaned the skimmer cup two days ago after my last water change, and the whole skimmer 10 days ago, so I think it hasn't settle down yet. It's skimming a bit wet, I believe
Here is my skimmer which is constantly at work, it appears this way with dry foamy skim all day 24-7, this pic taken the day after cleaning
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Perry,
To what do you attribute the dark rich color of your skimmate? Is it due to sheer volume of fish or coral food, chemical supplement dosing as opposed to fish food, or due to using frozen as opposed to dry foods? Look forward to your input.
plyle02
Active member
Hi Kevin,
When running system based on bacteria and carbon source, it has been well documented that the skimmer seems to perform much better. The skimmer is an ATB cone skimmer powered by a Eheim 1260 pump. I have used it on and off of algae based and probiotic based systems. This is by far the most grungy, thick, dark and constant skimmate observed. I do only feed frozen, yes my fish are snobs and get mainly LRS Reef Frenzy, 2-3 times daily, in a chunk about the size of half dollar each time
I still maintain low values despite this feeding regime, and dose all the AF supps daily. If your skimmer is too wet, likely the bacteria is skimmed off before it can become effective, as with coral supps too, that said, the skimmer is supposed to run dry... Cheers
plyle02
Active member
The point is that the skimmer should still collect, if it only collects wet, then maybe that is your issue, but the idea is that the bacteria and carbon should have kicked your skimmer in to overdrive, it does not appear to be happening. The heart of the system is the skimmer, this is the most important function to remove what your are feeding. Cheers
I suspect the copper in E might be a factor for some of us.
600L tank - I was dosing 2/3 drops A+V+B daily & holding my No3 levels fine with 3 drops each ProBioS & NP Pro.( +/- 3 months like this) Then i started including E & i've been chasing my tail trying to get No3 back under control ever since, now dosing 16 drops/day for the last month & struggling to get it to still come back down.
Dosed E for about 2 months before i stopped dosing it.
Using Comp ABC,don't use AF salt as there's no agent in the country here & its too expensive to ship in.
600L tank - I was dosing 2/3 drops A+V+B daily & holding my No3 levels fine with 3 drops each ProBioS & NP Pro.( +/- 3 months like this) Then i started including E & i've been chasing my tail trying to get No3 back under control ever since, now dosing 16 drops/day for the last month & struggling to get it to still come back down.
Dosed E for about 2 months before i stopped dosing it.
Using Comp ABC,don't use AF salt as there's no agent in the country here & its too expensive to ship in.
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I have been having the same issue. Since I started using AF products my Nitrates went up to 10 and is staying there my phosphates is at 0. My system is 150gallon. Did a 70% WC last week but nitrates still at 10. I have increased feeding to add some phosphates as the bacteria needs carbon, nitrates and phosphates to work (Redfield ratio). I m following this thread closely.
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