Hippo tang has ich

[bdroddy]

My hippo tang has white spots for about 3 weeks. I'm setting up my qt now.
Fish list:
Firefish
3 chromis
Christmas wrasse
Sailfin Tang
Potter's angel
My blue tang
Orange spotted rabbit fish.

I'm going to treat with coppersafe. I have several questions,

#1. With using copper, I don't need to seed the biowheel?
#2. How often water changes?
#3. I only have a 20 gallon long and I'm worried about the limited space.
#4. Will my sps make it over 9 weeks without a bio load.

I've read snorvich's lists and mrturkfish but I'm selfish and would like to tailor this thread to my situation. Thanks for all ya'lls help.

 

[jcw]

That's a tough one, two tangs and a rabbitfish probably make a TON of waste and ammonia will be an issue almost immediately.

I don't think you should rush into QT if you only have a 20 long.

 

[b0bab0ey]

Yeah, you're looking at lots of WCs with that bio-load in a 20L, probably at least every other day. Maybe even daily. I would add as many HOB filters and sponge filters as you can. Really, I feel you're taking quite a risk putting so many fish in a QT that small. I would look on craiglist or something for a tank at least twice that size...

Your SPS will be fine for 9 weeks while you go fallow. Just feed your DT a tiny pinch of Flake every 2-3 days to keep the bacteria in your LR going.

 

[MrTuskfish]

I agree with the above, lots of fish in a small space. Seeding the bio-wheel would help, but takes weeks and it wouldn't be enough.....IMO. Don't be tempted to use an ammonia neutralizer, like Prime or Ammo-Lock, they make the copper very toxic. I don't know anything about Copper-safe, I always use Cupramine, but many (most) ammonia test kits don't work with copper. You'll need one of those stick-on ammonia alerts to monitor ammonia. With all those fish in a 20, I think its safe to assume there will be ammonia and do as many WCs as possible. I'd have a large quantity of mixed water ready and mixing/aerating---maybe a Brute trash can full. Try to avoid using freshly mixed water. Also, be sure the QT has plenty of flow and aeration or surface turbulence.

 

[Chris27]

Unlike Cupramine, Coppersafe is chelated copper, it needs to be dosed much higher then Cupramine or Copper Sulfate. Shoot for about 1.0 ppm when using it. As for the tank size, yep it's going to be rough, you'll likely be doing daily water changes for the first two weeks.

While Prime and Amquel are no-no's with Cupramine, I've used them with Coppersafe without problem. It's a different chemical, and doesn't react with the ammonia detox products the same way.

 

[MrTuskfish]

Unlike Cupramine, Coppersafe is chelated copper, it needs to be dosed much higher then Cupramine or Copper Sulfate. Shoot for about 1.0 ppm when using it. As for the tank size, yep it's going to be rough, you'll likely be doing daily water changes for the first two weeks.

While Prime and Amquel are no-no's with Cupramine, I've used them with Coppersafe without problem. It's a different chemical, and doesn't react with the ammonia detox products the same way.

Good to know; I think one of these may be needed then.....right?

 

[Chris27]

Good to know; I think one of these may be needed then.....right?

It'll surely help with the hair loss and back problems in the first few weeks....

 

[bdroddy]

For daily water changes, how much Water do I need to change, half? I would love to get a bigger tank, but I have limited space. I have the bio wheel in my sump but only for about 3 days. The size of the filter is for a 30 gallon tank. I should go bigger? Also, I have a small tunze skimmer, shoul I use that? I have a 55 gallon trash can with mixed salt water. Should I continue to do wc on my dt and use that water in the qt. I'll get an air pump and I have 2 pumps for water flow. I was going to get a lr out of my sump and put it in the tank. I know not to put it back in the qt. I think I'll use the cuprimine. Sorry for the miss spelling.

Thanks guys for you help. All are eating great so I'm not rushing the seeding of the bio wheel.

 

[MrTuskfish]

Really no reason to do WCs in the DT if its fishless; just monitor water quality and change if needed. A skimmer in the QT won't hurt, but most organics should be already removed by WCs. It will add flow, though. Don't put any more water from the DT into the QT; you're just adding more parasites. Once treatment starts in the QT, don't let anything wet pass from the DT to the QT. I don't think you'll get much help from the bio-wheel. Also, add copper more slowly than the directions suggest and watch for signs of copper sensitivity (the Potter's is quite sensitive to copper) The brand you use is up to you; but given Chris's comments on ammo-neutralizers being used with copper-safe----that may be the way to go. Ammonia is going to be a constant concern.

 

[bdroddy]

Really no reason to do WCs in the DT if its fishless; just monitor water quality and change if needed. A skimmer in the QT won't hurt, but most organics should be already removed by WCs. It will add flow, though. Don't put any more water from the DT into the QT; you're just adding more parasites. Once treatment starts in the QT, don't let anything wet pass from the DT to the QT. I don't think you'll get much help from the bio-wheel. Also, add copper more slowly than the directions suggest and watch for signs of copper sensitivity (the Potter's is quite sensitive to copper) The brand you use is up to you; but given Chris's comments on ammo-neutralizers being used with copper-safe----that may be the way to go. Ammonia is going to be a constant concern.

Thanks everyone for the help. I bought cupramine from seachem. API copper test kit with ammonia strips also. I guess since I'll be doing daily wc it isn't necessary. I'm adjusting the sg in the water change trash can. This Saturday, wc in dt, then moving that water to qt. I'll then start to catch the fish. Couple more questions:

#1 how much daily water change
#2 taking live rock out of the tank with corals attached. Can I leave exposed to air for about 15 minutes.
#3 how often do I feed? Should I leave veggie clip with nori everyday for tangs?
#4 didnt get air pump. I bought extra bio wheel filter with maxi jet 1200 for flow.

 

[b0bab0ey]

#1 how much daily water change

I would get a 4 or 5 gal bucket, and just make changing out that much water part of my daily routine. Obviously, make sure the SG and temp matches your QT perfectly. And make sure you suck out any and all "crap" that has settled on the bottom.

#2 taking live rock out of the tank with corals attached. Can I leave exposed to air for about 15 minutes.

The answer to this is largely dependent on the type of coral but overall, no, I wouldn't leave any coral out of water for 15 mins. A few mins is fine but...

#3 how often do I feed? Should I leave veggie clip with nori everyday for tangs?

I would only feed once a day as you don't want any excess food laying on the bottom. That's just going to add to your battle with ammonia, which is already going to be an uphill one. Nori is fine but again, suck out any excess. With this amount of fish in this small of a QT, you want to keep it as "sterile" as possible.

#4 didnt get air pump. I bought extra bio wheel filter with maxi jet 1200 for flow.

Don't put a cover on your QT (or use eggcrate if you have jumpers). Take a powerhead (even a small one) and point it up towards the surface until it makes ripples. This will draw more oxygen into your QT. But be careful, it will also increase evaporation.

 

[bdroddy]

I would get a 4 or 5 gal bucket, and just make changing out that much water part of my daily routine. Obviously, make sure the SG and temp matches your QT perfectly. And make sure you suck out any and all "crap" that has settled on the bottom


Got it. That is going to be a lot of water changes/gallons in the long run. I really hope this all goes well.

Also, with daily water changes that should keep the ammonia in check correct?

 

[b0bab0ey]

Got it. That is going to be a lot of water changes/gallons in the long run. I really hope this all goes well.

Also, with daily water changes that should keep the ammonia in check correct?

I would just get one of those Seachem ammonia alert badges. Just keep an eye on it and always keep fresh s/w ready to go.

 

[bdroddy]

I ordered the badge and Salifert's copper test. I had api's version but the more I read I realized that was the wrong ones.

 

[bdroddy]

One last question, I have a piece of live rock in the qt right now to seed the bio wheel. I haven't added the copper yet. Should I remove the live rock before using copper or does it not matter.

 

[b0bab0ey]

One last question, I have a piece of live rock in the qt right now to seed the bio wheel. I haven't added the copper yet. Should I remove the live rock before using copper or does it not matter.

I would. Once you add the copper, that piece of LR will absorb some of the copper and become "contaminated". You'd have to soak it in both bleach and muriatic acid to make it 100% "reef safe" again. Besides, the more copper it absorbs, the more you'll have to keep re-dosing to keep your copper levels up. If you want hiding places for your fish, just go buy some PVC pipe elbows. That won't absorb any copper. Or at least not enough to lower your copper level.

 

[MrTuskfish]

....and don't forget the obvious; every WC means adjusting copper levels. All it takes is a short window of low copper and another ich parasite can bury itself in a fish and start the whole mess over again. The last time I had an uncycled HT; I kept a tub of new water mixing and it had copper at the same level as the HT. Dump 5 gals (or whatever), replace it ASAP with the already medicated water.

 

[bdroddy]

....and don't forget the obvious; every WC means adjusting copper levels. All it takes is a short window of low copper and another ich parasite can bury itself in a fish and start the whole mess over again. The last time I had an uncycled HT; I kept a tub of new water mixing and it had copper at the same level as the HT. Dump 5 gals (or whatever), replace it ASAP with the already medicated water.

I'm so glad you told me that. I wouldn't have done that. For the first couple days I'm going to use 1/2 the dose like you suggested and monitor the fish. After a week, the I'll raise to .35 mg/l, then count down for 4 weeks, then put the carbon in and count down for 4 more weeks. That would be a total of nine weeks.