Holy Mackeral! It isn't always spam!
- Thread starter ostrow
- Start date
aaronpentz
New member
Yeah you could add as much stuff as you wanted. Just remember that you dont want to overload the Inverter. The more current that you require from the inverter the hotter it will get. You have to make sure that you dont overheat the inverter as it will shut down if you do.
The inverter that you posted will work but it has a lower output for a higher price. The one that I posted has a max of 4000 Watts with a continuous supply of 2200 Watts.
Your fridge will pull a lot of current, just pull the fridge out and check how many amps it pulls add that to the computer and the pump and you have your total. Add 20% and then look for one that can supply what you need.
The inverter that you posted will work but it has a lower output for a higher price. The one that I posted has a max of 4000 Watts with a continuous supply of 2200 Watts.
Your fridge will pull a lot of current, just pull the fridge out and check how many amps it pulls add that to the computer and the pump and you have your total. Add 20% and then look for one that can supply what you need.
aaronpentz
New member
Send a message to the user as he put Pure Sine wave in the description. but in the Features Table he puts Modified Sine wave.
If its pure sine I would go for that If not then I would keep looking.
If its pure sine I would go for that If not then I would keep looking.
ostrow
It's Dr. Goodluck Himself
1SickReefer
New member
Overkill?
1SickReefer
New member
its a string a batteries, something the spend that money on 
ostrow
It's Dr. Goodluck Himself
! No need for THAT!
I am frozen solid on this and have to stop. I am getting contradictory information all over re: the output form -- true vs modified sine wave. I don't want to do this and then ruin something.
Do want to be able to run computer, laser printer, fridge, and hammerhead pump.
I am frozen solid on this and have to stop. I am getting contradictory information all over re: the output form -- true vs modified sine wave. I don't want to do this and then ruin something.
Do want to be able to run computer, laser printer, fridge, and hammerhead pump.
1SickReefer
New member
Thats not at my house lol, it's a battery back-up for telephone/security systems at a bank, but it would work at the house.
1SickReefer
New member
this is what spurred that picture
their not marine 12v, that whole string together is 54v for 20hours.
jdieck
New member
OK here is my take:
a) First you need to determine what you will run and the required capacity. Add all the watts, for motors multiply it by two as they will take that much to start up. That will be the peak load the inverter shall be able to take. The same figure without multiplying the motors by two will be the continuous load required.
b) I would not mix computer or electronic equipment in the same circuit as pump motors, the motors generate a lot of noise and peaks of load that only very good expensive inverters will be able to handle, besides a computer load is relatively small so I would prefer to have then on their own UPS.
c) Now decide the features you would like to have in the inverter.
At least you need switch over, overload protection, temperature protection.
For most inverters modified sine wave or pure sine wave is just marketing mumbo jumbo. All of them convert direct power to square wave using electronic switching circuits and then use capacitors to simulate the up ramp curve and down ramp curb of a sine wave. What I would be looking for is for the inverter to be able to maintain constant voltage for which regulated output is required.
d) Decide how long you want to be able to run.
Battery capacity is rated in Ampere-Hours in other words assuming the Amp-Hour rating is constant at different draws (But it is not, At higher draws the lower the Amp Hr rating) a 100 Am-Hr battery will be able to supply at 12 volts 100 Amperes and will run out in one hour. 50 amperes and run out in two hours, if you want to run for 8 hours that battery shall draw no more than 12 Amperes.
How many batteries?
OK lets start the math.
You have a requirement of 1000 continuous watts so you get a 1200 to 1500 watt inverter (I recommend to oversize it by 20 to 50%) A good inverter will be 85 to 90% efficient (the higher efficiency the less heat it will generate and usually the longer the life) that is if it is supplying 1000 continuous watts it will draw , 1176 watts from the batteries (1000/0.85), rounding up it will require 1200 watts supplied by the batteries.
If the batteries are supplying 12 volts then they require to supply 100 amperes (1200/12) to the inverter.
If you like it to run for 4 hours then you need 400 ampere-hours from the batteries. Because batteries (deep cycle) are designed to be depleted up to 80% of their capacity then you need 500 Amp-Hours, if your batteries are 150 ampere hours then you need around 4 batteries connected in parallel.
The same system will run for 8 hours if your draw is 500 watts.
About batteries types they are designed for the type of work. Start batteries (Like for cars) are designed to provide very high Amperage for some 10 to 15 seconds and then just maintain a small load.
Deep Cycle batteries (Which is what we need here) are batteries designed to be drained and charged repeatedly but can't provide for very large output amperage. They are usually a lot heavier (Thicker Lead Plates) and more expensive.
These are more suitable for power back up or electric cars like golf carts or forklifts.
They range between 100 to 200 bucks each depending on their capacity.
Heavy Duty Industrial type like the ones used in fork lifts can deliver up to around 1000 Amp-Hr each, the price tag could be 3 to 5 grand and can weight up to 1000 pounds!
Marine batteries are basically somewhere in between deep cycle and Start batteries. They are mostly used to run boats and RVs where some motor starting capacity is needed but also can be drained low to run things like on board appliances.
So in summary the cost of the system goes up exponentially with the capacity and length of time you want to run.
If the price is right try a good high capacity inverter. (I think the one linked above http://cgi.ebay.com/2200-Watt-Power...ryZ85805QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem is a good option) even if you run it at only 500 to 750 watts as it has most if not all the features you need including regulated output and aouto switch over system plus charger.
Use deep cycle batteries and try to limit your load to the minimum esentials (Basically the return pump, a heater and some powerheads and get extra 9 V batteries for your controller)
Note that you need to isolate the pump from the main circuit and use the auto switch over system to disconnect the back up from the main and connect it to the pump, other wise the backup will be connected to the main, besides being unable to support the whole system you can put power on the public lines creating a hazzard for the repair workers working outside.
For a pump of 1/4 horse power you need to support a consumption of about 200 watts continuous, 400 watts peak. Add a 100 watt heater and couple of powerheads and an air pump and you are talking for a load of about 400 watts continuous 600 watt peak.
Hope this info helps
a) First you need to determine what you will run and the required capacity. Add all the watts, for motors multiply it by two as they will take that much to start up. That will be the peak load the inverter shall be able to take. The same figure without multiplying the motors by two will be the continuous load required.
b) I would not mix computer or electronic equipment in the same circuit as pump motors, the motors generate a lot of noise and peaks of load that only very good expensive inverters will be able to handle, besides a computer load is relatively small so I would prefer to have then on their own UPS.
c) Now decide the features you would like to have in the inverter.
At least you need switch over, overload protection, temperature protection.
For most inverters modified sine wave or pure sine wave is just marketing mumbo jumbo. All of them convert direct power to square wave using electronic switching circuits and then use capacitors to simulate the up ramp curve and down ramp curb of a sine wave. What I would be looking for is for the inverter to be able to maintain constant voltage for which regulated output is required.
d) Decide how long you want to be able to run.
Battery capacity is rated in Ampere-Hours in other words assuming the Amp-Hour rating is constant at different draws (But it is not, At higher draws the lower the Amp Hr rating) a 100 Am-Hr battery will be able to supply at 12 volts 100 Amperes and will run out in one hour. 50 amperes and run out in two hours, if you want to run for 8 hours that battery shall draw no more than 12 Amperes.
How many batteries?
OK lets start the math.
You have a requirement of 1000 continuous watts so you get a 1200 to 1500 watt inverter (I recommend to oversize it by 20 to 50%) A good inverter will be 85 to 90% efficient (the higher efficiency the less heat it will generate and usually the longer the life) that is if it is supplying 1000 continuous watts it will draw , 1176 watts from the batteries (1000/0.85), rounding up it will require 1200 watts supplied by the batteries.
If the batteries are supplying 12 volts then they require to supply 100 amperes (1200/12) to the inverter.
If you like it to run for 4 hours then you need 400 ampere-hours from the batteries. Because batteries (deep cycle) are designed to be depleted up to 80% of their capacity then you need 500 Amp-Hours, if your batteries are 150 ampere hours then you need around 4 batteries connected in parallel.
The same system will run for 8 hours if your draw is 500 watts.
About batteries types they are designed for the type of work. Start batteries (Like for cars) are designed to provide very high Amperage for some 10 to 15 seconds and then just maintain a small load.
Deep Cycle batteries (Which is what we need here) are batteries designed to be drained and charged repeatedly but can't provide for very large output amperage. They are usually a lot heavier (Thicker Lead Plates) and more expensive.
These are more suitable for power back up or electric cars like golf carts or forklifts.
They range between 100 to 200 bucks each depending on their capacity.
Heavy Duty Industrial type like the ones used in fork lifts can deliver up to around 1000 Amp-Hr each, the price tag could be 3 to 5 grand and can weight up to 1000 pounds!
Marine batteries are basically somewhere in between deep cycle and Start batteries. They are mostly used to run boats and RVs where some motor starting capacity is needed but also can be drained low to run things like on board appliances.
So in summary the cost of the system goes up exponentially with the capacity and length of time you want to run.
If the price is right try a good high capacity inverter. (I think the one linked above http://cgi.ebay.com/2200-Watt-Power...ryZ85805QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem is a good option) even if you run it at only 500 to 750 watts as it has most if not all the features you need including regulated output and aouto switch over system plus charger.
Use deep cycle batteries and try to limit your load to the minimum esentials (Basically the return pump, a heater and some powerheads and get extra 9 V batteries for your controller)
Note that you need to isolate the pump from the main circuit and use the auto switch over system to disconnect the back up from the main and connect it to the pump, other wise the backup will be connected to the main, besides being unable to support the whole system you can put power on the public lines creating a hazzard for the repair workers working outside.
For a pump of 1/4 horse power you need to support a consumption of about 200 watts continuous, 400 watts peak. Add a 100 watt heater and couple of powerheads and an air pump and you are talking for a load of about 400 watts continuous 600 watt peak.
Hope this info helps
ostrow
It's Dr. Goodluck Himself
Thanks much, Jose. All but the last paragraph makes sense. I think that refers to tapping this all into the breaker box, which isn't happening. If I were going that route, I'd get a natural gas generator.
What worries me is not using the same thing for the computer as the pump. If the inverter or generator has 2 outlets, separate plugs, and I'm not near the capacity, where exactly is the problem?
The UPS systems I have seen can't run the computer for more than 20min without draining. Batteries seem to drain at full power after utility power shuts off even if nothing is running. I haven't found anything that could run a computer for 6-8hrs in an affordable cost range.
There are all-in-one inverter/charger/battery units by Xanex for under $200 at the 600watt range. Could run the computer a few hours. That could be an option.
I like that inverter/charger. I'd need a 100ah battery. Those are over $100. At this cost range now I'm well past the cost of a 5000 watt gas generator, that could handle the fridge too. I'm not sure why I am even thinking about the battery system now. And the bettery system will only run maybe half a day from what I can tell.
I think a 5000watt gass generator could handle fridge, pump and computer for close to 24hrs.
Very complicated and confusing.
Found on craigslist a Coleman 5000 watter with a propane conversion kit. Run the generator on the gas grill tank. I think I like this option.
What worries me is not using the same thing for the computer as the pump. If the inverter or generator has 2 outlets, separate plugs, and I'm not near the capacity, where exactly is the problem?
The UPS systems I have seen can't run the computer for more than 20min without draining. Batteries seem to drain at full power after utility power shuts off even if nothing is running. I haven't found anything that could run a computer for 6-8hrs in an affordable cost range.
There are all-in-one inverter/charger/battery units by Xanex for under $200 at the 600watt range. Could run the computer a few hours. That could be an option.
I like that inverter/charger. I'd need a 100ah battery. Those are over $100. At this cost range now I'm well past the cost of a 5000 watt gas generator, that could handle the fridge too. I'm not sure why I am even thinking about the battery system now. And the bettery system will only run maybe half a day from what I can tell.
I think a 5000watt gass generator could handle fridge, pump and computer for close to 24hrs.
Very complicated and confusing.
Found on craigslist a Coleman 5000 watter with a propane conversion kit. Run the generator on the gas grill tank. I think I like this option.
jdieck
New member
I wish I coul too but that has me stagnated between dark and shadows.
I know what I need but also I know I can't aford it end result= Done nothing.I think my main concern is not the tank but the sump pump for the basement, every time it rains heavy, I can hear the rush of water and the sump pump working on and off every 10 minutes. Having gone thru the flood of 76 when we lost all the suff in the basement to the Naperville flood I really get concerned when it rains a lot.
The good news is that we have lost power only 10 minutes in the last 6 years we have been living here.
I might end up going the same route as you, a small manual generator out in the garage for both the basement sump and the aquarium sump
