How deep is your sand?

[NeedBiggerTank]

I bought a book online this week called "Live Sand Secrets" by Bob Goemans. It wasn't what I thought it was (from the description, I thought it would tell me about types of live sand, grades of sand, maintaining the sand, replacing it, etc.). Its actually a book about setting up a plenum system.

Anyhoo, after doing some searches online to find out if these systems were widely used, it seems that a DSB is preferable. Which begs the question, how deep is your sand?

We recently bought some oolite live sand to add to our display (my sand seems to have "shrunk" over the past year or so. But maybe we neede to add more. Current bed has an average depth of 2". I'm thinking this may be contributing to our nitrate issues?

Thought I'd try to see what reveryone else has in their tanks.

 

[Pickupman66]

Dont add more.

Yes a DSB can be a way to remove nitrates, but they have fallen out of favor due to the inevitable crash of them. most folks who use then do so as a remote dsb so they can be removed if need be.

2" is fine for the tank. dont worry about more. I had about 1.5 in my old tank. my new one I got a bit too much in there as it was decieving with my stand but oh well. my tank is 3" in areas, and in others you can see the glass on the bottom. I have actually thought about removing some of it.

Plenum in a DSB is a death trap. stagnant water, nitrogen gas. DISASTER waiting to happen.

There are WAY better ways to remove nitrate than DSB. you have Denitrators (diy and store bought), Vodka and skimmers and other Granular carbon dosing like the vertex pellets that do a much better job and wont go boom.

 

[NeedBiggerTank]

Well, I certainly don't want it to go "boom"!

 

[iamwrasseman]

i have 3" of sand in my tanks because my wrasses need some place to sleep and hide as they use the sand bed to do this . otherwise i would suggest that live rock goes in first and then two inches of sand just for the ability to properly clean and maintain the tank .

 

[Pickupman66]

Figure of speech but I personally would not put any faith in them. I do believe they have to be stirred and such. too much trouble if you ask me. currently, I am dosing my tank 1.5ml of Heavenly Hill vodka daily. I always seem to pour too much into the medicine cup and it dont pout back in well, so I get a little treat for myself when teh fish get it. while my tank is not stocked heavily yet with fish, I do have 3 large tangs over 6" each.

My nitrates are ZERO. I checked them last night and the API test kit didnt color change at all. The key is a good skimmer on your system.

I also used a Coil denitrator on my old tank that did a great job of keeping the nitrates in check.

wrasse man.. I envy your wrasses. I will have one or two here shortly...at least in Jan I will get a Melanurus.

 

[iamwrasseman]

awesome choice and i wish you the best !

 

[NeedBiggerTank]

How do you set up a "remote" DSB? I just saw in another post that some of you have set these up - the post said a 5 gallon bucket? I guess I'm just not picturing how that would look/work.

 

[pelagic7]

How do you set up a "remote" DSB? I just saw in another post that some of you have set these up - the post said a 5 gallon bucket? I guess I'm just not picturing how that would look/work.

depends on what kind of tank do you have. I've read about it requires the same area as your display tank. If you don't have enough space, it doesn't work too well.

Doesn't wroth the space/time/money imo. Vodka or NP pellet are much easier and safer.

 

[poolkeeper1]

If you have the room? You can take a Rubbermaid, Lets say 20"x20"x 8" deep, This is the correct depth to have a proper DSB and you need water flow over the container but not so much as to blow the sand around. I had one for many years and they worked for me but they can become a time bomb if they get to dirty and do more harm than good. Once added to your sump they must not be disturbed and they take a long time to become active but when it matures it will keep your No3 at 0 without any work on your part. Just make sure it stays clean. JMO
Bill

 

[Pickupman66]

wouldnt keeping it clean require "work" LOL!

lots of opinions here on the DSB. overall the theme seems to be Ticking time bomb.

now if only it were acceptable to dose beer instead of vodka. I could finally have a good excuse the always have cold beer at the house!

 

[AdrianBryce]

Also keep in mind that generally you want to stay below 3" and above 5". In between and there is little buffer between the top of the SB and the anaerobic zone. making it more susceptible to being stirred to deep and releasing toxins.

 

[poolkeeper1]

No Work

No Work

wouldnt keeping it clean require "work" LOL!

lots of opinions here on the DSB. overall the theme seems to be Ticking time bomb.

now if only it were acceptable to dose beer instead of vodka. I could finally have a good excuse the always have cold beer at the house!

No Actually the best thing is forget it's there once you get the flow to keep Detritus from settling on the surface you just check it to see that the top layer is clean. Disturbing it is not reccomended the most would be to blow any dirt off the top layer.:blown:
Bill

 

[NeedBiggerTank]

I did a lot of reading last night on a thread here on RC in the "advanced topic section" about remote DSBs and from it I gathered:

* although a 5G bucket will work, a larger surface area is preferred (like a rubbermaid tub)

* small grain sand should be used (1 - 2mm)

* the sand bed should not exceed 18" - 20" in depth, but needs to be at least 11"

* flow rate of 100-200 GPH (enough to keep detrius moving/suspended but not enough to disturb the sand)

* no light (keep covered)

The thread also went on to say that you could use the bags of sand you can buy at Home Depot or Lowes. Wouldn't using live sand be better?

This will only cost $35 or so to implement (assuming one uses dry sand) - so if it doesn't work, no big loss. My nitrates range from 15 to 25 (so not terribly high, but still need to get them to zero). Using the RODI water doesn't seem to be lowering my nitrates as I was hoping it might and the vodka dosing just made things worse (don't think I have a good enough skimmer for the vodka/ecoBak pellet methods + I don't have a sump). Just trying to look at all the alternatives.

Thanks for the feedback. I appreciate it!

 

[fishdoc11]

I've been bare bottom in my main tank for many years now. It just makes reefkeeping so much easier IMO.

 

[Pickupman66]

Jennie, I would not use home depot sand unless it is Southdown Play sand. the other can have silicates which is DISASTER to your tank.

 

[poolkeeper1]

+1 That would be a grave mistake, If you think you have problems now! Without a sump It is not practical to try the DSB unless you use the 5gal bucket method, And that will give marginal results at best JMO Without a good skimmer your choices are very limited, A good skimmer in itself may solve your issue alone.
Bill

 

[Pickupman66]

I agree with Bill Jennie. you wont see appreciable results from the DSB for months. you can make a Denitrator coil for the same ammt of money and it is alot less hassle.

A good skimmer open you up for other options for nitrate removal.

 

[NeedBiggerTank]

I know we need to convert over to a sump, which will help w/ the larger volume of water. Because our tank is only 18" wide, the space under the cabinet is rather limited (and its not very tall either). We really were hoping we could wait until we got a bigger tank (hense lots more space under the tank) to upgrade to a sump. However, I suppose we could always put the sump beside the tank (although it won't look so nice sitting on the floor of our kitchen - and it has to be covered as we have cats - they would find that too temping to play in!) or find something small enough to fit under the tank - then trade up for a larger sump when we get the bigger tank.

I don't even know where to start when it comes to sumps - one off the shelf or DIY? Overflows? Flexible tubing or PVC? What return pump? <sigh>

 

[Pickupman66]

Jennie, fwiw, I had a 20 gallon long sump under my 75. it is the same footprint as your tank, and you will have plenty of room for it under there. I ran mine with a Mag 9.5 in it and it was perfect for the 75. I sold it to someone when we sold off the tank. I tihnk smyrnareefer has it but not 100% sure. I am not a fan of those premade kits they sell and prefer a good DIY sump. Glass cages sells premade sumps over in Dixon and they arent too bad, but I dont like the return area size (too small without ATO in place). a sump with a skimmer in it will do a lot for your tank overall. much more so than a DSB in my opinion. depending on what you do, you can also put a small area of DSB refugium in the sump itself.

www.melevsreef.com is a GREAT site for sump designs.

 

[NeedBiggerTank]

I guess I'm hijacking my own thread LOL - somehow we've gone from sand depth to sumps!

OK - say I get a sump that will fit and get you (or other club members) to tell me/show me how/where to set up the baffles etc. - what skimmer do we purchase? We want one that will function on a 200 gallon tank (I only want to buy a really good skimmer once!). It will be overkill on the 90, but from what I've heard/read, you can't "overskim".

We have a CPR 4.75G refugium (HOB) already - so we could hang that off the sump.