How do you treat ich for the fish from an 8x2x2 reef

[mattsilvester]

I don't believe it - my fish have ich AGAIN! Obviously, I've mesed up somewhere, but I thought I had done everything right!

Ok - so I'll cut straight to the chase - I have recently introduced a powder blue tang into my 8x2x2 tank. I quarantined him etc. but oviously something got missed, somehwere.......

So .... I have an 8x2x2 tank with the following fish:

Emporer angel 6"
Naso Tang 4"
Powder blue tang 4"
Yellow tang 3.5"
Purple Tang 3.5"
5 Lyretail anthias
1 orange spot goby

So far, only the powder blue and naso have shown signs of it......... but expereince has taught me that ich doesn't just "go away"....... so I am going to hope for the best, and plan for the worst.

If I have to remove everything, catch the fish, and hypo them, then I am faced with two challenges:

(1) Housing them - physically, this shouldn't be such a problem. I have the following tanks at my disposal:
48"x18"x20"
48"x12"x12"
18"x18"x18" cube

(2) Filtering the tanks - this is more difficult! I have nothing prepared for this, and I have no "biological" filter at the ready...... Obviously I have mature water - I can go out and get a bucket of PVC fittings for hiding places etc., but filters..... well I'm stumped. I have pumps galore, and heaters - I have a canister filter and an internal power filter...... so what do I do?

As I say, I am hoping for the best in this situation - but I want to start preparing for the worst, just in case!

Needless to say, I will be putting them through a full 35 days of hypo, ifit comes to that.....
Thanks guys,

Matt

 

[Sk8r]

I have always, when I had a fish that had to be housed separately, figured that a pure, clean frequently renewed water with fanatically changed filter media with carbon [once treatment is over] was better than something iffy with a dirty filter that was hoped to be biologically active...that no longer is thanks to meds or hypo. I'd put the cannister on the biggest and get a big air driven pump to run ordinary corner filters on the rest: a headache for water changes and filter changes, but I think it would be easier than trying to nurse along a biological filter.

Also, if you intend to get any more fish, I'd just go ahead and get them and handle them all, once for all, get these guys clean and then be done with adding fish for the next 10 years.

 

[sundancer]

Matt, what I have done when my tank had ich was I took 3 tanks similar to yours and plumbed them inline one on top of another with a bucket of bioballs and pad filter in between. The 3 tanks are plumbed in a way that allows the water to overflow down to the next one until it reaches bottom. You need to drill the tanks to do this to act as overflows. I installed bulkheads and route with PVC pipes. In the bottom tank is a RIO 3100 return pump that taks the water back up to the top tank. I made a multi level shelf to house these tanks. I hope this makes sense. I have since broke down this set up so I don't have a pic but it worked extremely well. I even hooked up a skimmer to the bottom tank after I got done with the copper treatment.

 

[mattsilvester]

Thanks guys:

Sk8r - as far as getting new fish and "cleaning" them up all at the same time - I was thinking the exact same thing..... well actually I was thinking more about corals to tell the truth - while my tank is ifhs free, I was thinking of getting a load of corals and "q-tine" them as such in the main tank....... mean while, I have consciously made the decision to become a q-tine freak and really go OTT if and when I get any fish in the future.

Sundancer - Yes, I have an overflow box. I intended to put the two 4' tanks one over the other, as you describe - I suppsoe if I hook up that overflow box, I can easily run the two four footers in sequence, like you describe.

So - with both of your advice in mind, coupled with my own 'gut' feeling about the situation, I was thinking of linking the two 4' tanks, as described, and using a 500 gal/hr pump for flow through the two. I would then connect the canister filter to the bottom (bigger) tank, filled with sponge and wool and carbon and a polyfilter (I am going to go the hypo route - if I go copper then obviosuly the polyfilter and carbon would not be included). If I can split the fish between these two tanks, and keep the 18" cube seperate then I will be able to make up "water change" water on a daily basis i.e. mix tonight, water change tomorrow night, make up new mix for the next day and so on...... the two 4 footers make for a 100 gal system, and the cube is 25 gals, so I can do daily 25 gal changes if necessary....... and since I will be dealing with a single system, as such, it will be easier to manage.

Thoughts?

Cheers,

Matt

 

[mattsilvester]

My wife is a genius!

My wife is a genius!

I was just starting to break the news gently to her that I might have to start netting fish and she sat there shaking her head...... saying; "your some engineer, I dunno, sometimes I think your mad" ........ so I asked her what she meant, and she replied "well what do I know, its just my stupid idea..........why don't you let the fish where they are and just take the rocks and corals out!!!"

Well, considering that I am planning to switch to softies anyway, and further considering that I only have a small amount of sand in the bottom of the tank which is easily syphoned out, I think its a great idea!

I can move the corals to an 18" cube, with a power head, and a 250W MH for a few days...... I can put the LR in the 48"x18"x18" tank (I am having trouble with hair algae at the moment, so re-curing it will probably help a lot) - then I can dump in a few large PVC fittings and just let all the fish in-situ for 6 weeks, and hypo it....... has to be better than moving them all? They'll have to go through the stress of me removing all the rocks anyway if I'm going to catch them!

Thoughts?

Cheers,

Matt

 

[sundancer]

So you are basically turning your reef into a fish only tank. Just keep in mind that doing hypo in the display will kill all micro organism in your live sand as well as the rest of your filtration system causing a cycle i.e. bad water which can kill all your fish. It's like stocking a tank before it complete its cycle. I considered this option as well but decided to not compromise my display and I am glad I didn't. If you decide to do this I would recommend removing all the sand as well as the rock and have lots of premixed water at the ready. Theoretically treating the main tank may seem easier but I think your livestock will be more stressed going this route because their home is being disrupted multiple times: Once when you remove the substrate,again when the tank cycles,again when you do the hypo and they have to adjust to a new bare bottom home,again when you bring the salinity back up and finally when you redo the aquascape which might cause poor water quality once more. It is very difficult to put in rock and sand when all your fish are desperately scurrying for cover but there is no place to hide. Since your will need to house the corals substrate which mean you need to run extra tanks anyway I would just take the fish out. During the hospital period you can use the time to make improvements to the display like aquascape or filtration etc. You asked for it so here it is. My thoughts.

 

[mattsilvester]

Thanks sundancer.

There are a couple of points that I probably did not mention:
(1) I want to go bare bottom anyway - so I can syphon the sand out while doing water cahnges to reduce sg. to 1.009.
(2) I made the decision previsouly that I was going to convert my tank to a softy tank rather than sps.

So that takes out some of that element.

Once the rock is removed, these is nothing to "die off" that will foul up the water. The water volume itself is 250 gals against 100 gals. I have to remove the rock anyway if I am going to catch the fish - so that is a stress factor either way; the only difference being that I will be dropping PVC fittings in for hiding places, rather than catching them in a net and moving them to an unfamiliar room / surroundings.....

Water quality will be an uphill battle anyway - but in 250 gals it seems it will be more stable although I will have to change a bigger volume of water (more gallons). I will have the advanage of my bigger skimmer banging away - even if it does just act as a aereator.

One of the biggest advantages I see of letting them in place is that I can observe them easily - it they are in the fish room, they'll get looked at 10 mins a day, and every time I enter the room they'll just go nuts..... if I let them in teh tank, in a room where they are familiar with the surrounds and outside activity, they will settle and allow proper observation (for bullying, feeding, breathing, etc.).

When it comes to putting the rock back in, I would do it slowly, over a period of say 2 weeks..... just pile up half of it on one side, then aquascape it - letting the PVC fittings in place.... then the other side .... sure it will have to re-cycle, but if I let my tank for 6-8 weeks without a bioload that will need to be re-cycled too.....

I'm not trying to "convince" anyone here, I just feel that my previsous post did not include all the variables....... with this additional info in mind, do you still think moving the fish is better?

Cheers,

Matt

 

[sundancer]

I think you have thought this through well enough to go ahead with it. The only thing to really look for is the water quality slide when you take all the stuff out. I agree with the ease of monitoring the fish when they are in the display. I hated going down to to fish room 3 times a day. By the way,some folks here posted little success using hypo for ich. I tried it before but did not come a conclusion. I use Coppersafe. It works for me. I think after your 6 week hypo(hospital) you should slowly raise the SG and observe (QT) for another 6 weeks under regular salinity level to be sure all the ich has left the fishes. You have 4 tangs. That makes it hard to keep an ich-free tank. I had 3 but had to give away the powder blue and brown, I have only the purple now and he is doing great. I would love to have more tangs but I am now gun shy. When they show aggression or not feeling well that's when they are most susceptable to infestations,unless your system is ich free. I woudn't be surprised if your 4 tangs go at each other in a bare tank,even with PVC. Good luck.

 

[dbmtrman]

Matt, What do you use for filtration in your DT?

 

[mattsilvester]

dbmtrman - I presume by DT you mean Display Tank ........ if so, LR.

Sundancer - hopfully the tangs will do ok. As far as hypo and sucess .......... I did it before and had good sucess with it. But I have a refractometer, and it must must must be kept at 1.009..... not 1.0095 or 1.010..... bang on 1.009..... at least that is what I was told, and that is what I have done and it worked a charm.

By Sunday I should have hypo conditions......... I am going to have lots of make up water on standby anyway.....and I am hoping my skimmer might skim a little bit ..... feeding is going to be difficult - trying to maintain a balance between feeding enough to prevent excessive aggression, and not feeding too much that I have serious ammonia problems..... gonna run a poly filter at the start anyway..... that should help.

I think I am going to go ahead with the "in tank" idea anyway..... it seems better in my mind, and if it all goes pear shaped.... well I've tried my best and I didn't rush into anything.....

Cheers,

Matt

 

[sundancer]

Matt,

I have,in one of my QT, a piece of acrylic with slots cut aroung the edges to use as a divider in case I want to keep inhabitants seperated. It's has been useful.

 

[mattsilvester]

thanks for the input guys.......

After much thought, I opted to go with the "in tank" treatment, using hypo...... so far so good..... daily testing of ammonia from here on in, and lots of water changes......

The fish lok really relaxed though and are totally unphased by the whole thing!

cheers,

Matt

 

[sundancer]

Matt,

You've got PM.

 

[mattsilvester]

Just a quick update...... so far so good.... no ammonia, fish look good, no aggression........ fingers crossed!