How is my QT plan?

[KayHouse]

Starting a new system and wanted to verify that my new plan on quarantining the fish was good before I began.

After fish are received, get RO/DI water and match the temperature and ph to the bag water fish comes in. Acclimate the temp and add the fish for a 30 min FW dip.

After, place fish in first hospital tank and let settle overnight.
1st hospital tank will be about 30g with heater, thermometer, pvc, bubbler, and small powerhead. Adding ammonia remover when needed.
Add prazipro and watch for 7 days. Trying to feed prepared foods after first night.
After prazi is finished, Begin TTM by switching to second tank.
After 3 days switch again... and so on until the full 12 days is up.

After TTM is finished, treat again with Prazipro for 7 days and watch.

Once second prazi treatment is complete, move to Quarantine tank, which this time includes protein skimmer and bio filter.
Watch for additional 2 weeks to look for any symptoms of parasites or the like, make sure is feeding well, and if all is good, add to tank.

What do you think of this? I was contemplating also adding a cupramine dose after the second prazi dose, but not sure. I understand that this is a lot of treatment, but with the ttm i will have zero chance of ich, which is amazing. And prazi should not be too stressful on the fish, and i've read 1 treatment is not always enough.


Anything you would do differently? Should I add anything?
Please let me know.

 

[Mrscribbled]

2nd paragraph you mention a 30 minute FW bath? Fish won't survive this. 5 to 10 is it.


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[wooden_reefer]

Aganist ich , the TTM is not what I would use.

But in a situation where ich infestation has not occurred in DT, the TTM at least should work often.

If eradication of ich fails after three months, what would you do?

How would you combat an ich infestation in DT after three months?

It seems to be that no matter what you do as design to eradicate ich, if such eradicate fails, just the TTM will be of no help to you in overcoming an ich infestation in DT, especially if the tank is almost completely stocked.

The process of stocking the last livestock can kill all!

This is just another reason, among many, why I do not like TTM as a first choice.

I always cycle the medium for QT very well and opt for the slow and sure method, the additional advantage is that is also serves as a contignecy plan if eradicate failed and an ich infestation in DT became reality. It has never failed me but such is a very cheap insurance policy to keep the bacteria in QT medium in peak condition several months after the stocking of the last.

 

[Ngoodermuth]

This sounds like a lot of stress for you and said fish.

My fish QT process is like this:

Temp/Drip acclimate for 1-2 hours.
Put fish in QT, leave them alone.
Attempt to feed a few hours later or the next day. I like to have the fish eating before treating if possible.
Treat with Prazi-pro as directed
Wait another 2-3 weeks then transfer to display if no additional symptoms present themselves and fish is eating well.

Other than deworming, I don't treat for anything I haven't observed

 

[wooden_reefer]

This sounds like a lot of stress for you and said fish.

My fish QT process is like this:

Temp/Drip acclimate for 1-2 hours.
Put fish in QT, leave them alone.
Attempt to feed a few hours later or the next day. I like to have the fish eating before treating if possible.
Treat with Prazi-pro as directed
Wait another 2-3 weeks then transfer to display if no additional symptoms present themselves and fish is eating well.

Other than deworming, I don't treat for anything I haven't observed

I always treat to eradicate ich, observed or not. I always presume ich irrespective of appearance. Eradication of ich centers on procedure, not any observation. There is nothing to observe as far as ich is concerned.

 

[KayHouse]

Wooden... So you would not TTM new fish? You don't think it works? How would you suggest combating it?

My tank has no water in it, all fish will be new and go through Quarantine before I place inside. From what I've read about ick life cycles, and the TTM method, if i put all my fish through this before they have a chance to go into the display, then they will be free of ick.

Do you have a better way to start a new system?

 

[KayHouse]

And Scribble, Are You Sure? Ive Read A Few Articles That State Otherwise. One Said They Would Last Over An Hour, But 30 Min Would Be Optimal For A FW Dip.

 

[Dmorty217]

Starting a new system and wanted to verify that my new plan on quarantining the fish was good before I began.

After fish are received, get RO/DI water and match the temperature and ph to the bag water fish comes in. Acclimate the temp and add the fish for a 30 min FW dip.

After, place fish in first hospital tank and let settle overnight.
1st hospital tank will be about 30g with heater, thermometer, pvc, bubbler, and small powerhead. Adding ammonia remover when needed.
Add prazipro and watch for 7 days. Trying to feed prepared foods after first night.
After prazi is finished, Begin TTM by switching to second tank.
After 3 days switch again... and so on until the full 12 days is up.

After TTM is finished, treat again with Prazipro for 7 days and watch.

Once second prazi treatment is complete, move to Quarantine tank, which this time includes protein skimmer and bio filter.
Watch for additional 2 weeks to look for any symptoms of parasites or the like, make sure is feeding well, and if all is good, add to tank.

What do you think of this? I was contemplating also adding a cupramine dose after the second prazi dose, but not sure. I understand that this is a lot of treatment, but with the ttm i will have zero chance of ich, which is amazing. And prazi should not be too stressful on the fish, and i've read 1 treatment is not always enough.


Anything you would do differently? Should I add anything?
Please let me know.

Don't mix prazipro and cupramine, cupramine will decrease the appetite of the fish for sure, I also wouldn't worry about the protein skimmer since the fish won't be in the QT long enough to benefit fri the skimmer

 

[Dmorty217]

I am currently in the 6th day kof the ank transfer method with my Achilles juv I got from LA

 

[wooden_reefer]

Wooden... So you would not TTM new fish? You don't think it works? How would you suggest combating it?

My tank has no water in it, all fish will be new and go through Quarantine before I place inside. From what I've read about ick life cycles, and the TTM method, if i put all my fish through this before they have a chance to go into the display, then they will be free of ick.

Do you have a better way to start a new system?

The TTM may well have high chance of working for you if an ich infestation has not happened in DT. So ideally if everything works you may well be OK.

I can give you a litany of small cons against TTM, not always decisive but cumulatively speak poorly for TTM.

If you already have bought your fish, I can only suggest doing TTM but at the same time cycle in a separate container now for contigency plan if TTM fails to eradicate ich. If infestation has happened in DT, TTM is useless. You don't want to do WC for 10 weeks for fallow period.

I eradicate ich by slow method. I plan ahead and do very little. I use copper for between 12-16 weeks generally, though I can't say for sure 8 weeks will not be enough, just that I do long period and have not have ich for 30 years.

Before I buy any fish I cycle a medium for QT very well so that the medium will support all fish QTed for extended period. QT is not stressful. (The larger Atlantic angels will have grown a little during QT). Copper will not affect nitrification bacteria, in case you do not know this basic fact.

I always use UV whenever possible, not against ich (useless) but against pathogenic bacteria. As long as there is no bacterial infection that requires an antibiotic that harms nitrification bacteria, I can QT easily for very extended periods.

My QT is FOWCC. Fish only with crushed coral, for months in general.

 

[KayHouse]

Dmorty: I wasn't planning on mixing the prazi and cup. I was planning on 7 day prazi, 12 day ttm, 7 day prazi, then a cup treatment to follow. After all of that, i would place in a larger Q tank for observation with a hob skimmer for circulation and aeration, and assist with protein breakdown if they are in there for an extended period of time, say, I observe a parasite and they stay in there for several extra weeks. Plus I have a couple of extra Remora's laying around, so why not use them for this

And how is your Achilles responding to the treatment? Thank you


Wooden...
I apologize but am not trying to seem rude, but it is difficult for me to understand what you are trying to say.
I'm not quite sure if you understand me either. You keep talking about a full display tank contaminated with ich, and dosing the last fish in a dt fully stocked.
I do not have a dt currently, i do not have any fish currently. I do not have any saltwater in any tank currently. This is all a pre planning process for new arrivals of fish.

From the studies of Ich, and the life style of the critter, the TTM has been proven to work, or so that is what i have read in multiple studies. You say that this method will not work with ick?
Well, it appears you say it may work for new fish, but not for fish in a dt, which if dont correctly, doesn't make any sense, but doesn't matter since i don't have any current fish.

Again I am not trying to argue or be mean, I am just trying to understand. For 30 years of reefing and keeping SW fish completely ich free, i am sure you know what you are talking about. But I don't know if 4 months of copper treatment, just to start with, is the right choice for me when it comes to adding every fish. That seems like it may be a bit excessive and, well not unnecessary.

Could you please explain why you believe the TTM will not cure ich?
Thank you.

 

[Dmorty217]

Kayhouse, I'm not sure that 2 treatments of prazipro will be necessary, I would only use the prazipro again if you notice fluke you didn't get rid of the first time around. If that's the case hen you probably didnt follow the prazipro directions very well. I have learned from the best on here when it comes to proper QTing. Tank transfer, prazipro, then cupramine, observe the fish in the QT for the remaining wks then add to your DT and you should be good to go. People will pick apart everything you do on here from saying TT method isn't good to dont use cupramine but this is what you will use for a healthy, long lives fish

 

[Dmorty217]

The TT method will work if done correctly but most will not do this correctly along the way. The cupramine is to take care of what most will lack in the TT method. I will do it just to ensure my pride and joy (Achilles) will be 100% ich free. If you have been keeping SW for 30 yrs I would think whatever you have done has worked in the past and continue to work for you. But if it doesn't people will be quick to point out your short comings in this area

 

[wooden_reefer]

Dmorty: I wasn't planning on mixing the prazi and cup. I was planning on 7 day prazi, 12 day ttm, 7 day prazi, then a cup treatment to follow. After all of that, i would place in a larger Q tank for observation with a hob skimmer for circulation and aeration, and assist with protein breakdown if they are in there for an extended period of time, say, I observe a parasite and they stay in there for several extra weeks. Plus I have a couple of extra Remora's laying around, so why not use them for this

And how is your Achilles responding to the treatment? Thank you


Wooden...
I apologize but am not trying to seem rude, but it is difficult for me to understand what you are trying to say.
I'm not quite sure if you understand me either. You keep talking about a full display tank contaminated with ich, and dosing the last fish in a dt fully stocked.
I do not have a dt currently, i do not have any fish currently. I do not have any saltwater in any tank currently. This is all a pre planning process for new arrivals of fish.

From the studies of Ich, and the life style of the critter, the TTM has been proven to work, or so that is what i have read in multiple studies. You say that this method will not work with ick?
Well, it appears you say it may work for new fish, but not for fish in a dt, which if dont correctly, doesn't make any sense, but doesn't matter since i don't have any current fish.

Again I am not trying to argue or be mean, I am just trying to understand. For 30 years of reefing and keeping SW fish completely ich free, i am sure you know what you are talking about. But I don't know if 4 months of copper treatment, just to start with, is the right choice for me when it comes to adding every fish. That seems like it may be a bit excessive and, well not unnecessary.

Could you please explain why you believe the TTM will not cure ich?
Thank you.

I did not say that TTM is unsound when you consider ich alone.

If you have not bought any fish, I suggest that you do not do TTM unless there is a special need to do so.

1. You should never expose fish to ammonia (a better TTM method can work however)
2. You should not handle fish needlessly. Doing so increases chance of bacterial infection. Don't break the mucus barrier if you can help it.
3. I believe in using UV against bacterial infection (not ich). TTM as it is is not convenient to set up UV every time.
4. WC and transfer of fish is a lot of work.
5. A method that requires planning first and little work to follow increases the chance of compliance and thoroughness.
6. TTM does not provide contigency if ich infestation were to break out in DT. Read the many ich SOS posts, many do QT half-baked and still have ich outbreak. It is much easier to combat an ich infestation in DT if you have effective nitrification for ALL fish standing by to be used in QT at any time.

QT is not about ich alone.

Time in QT is not wasted when you can accilimate and treat for a large array of parasites in stages.

TTM may seem effective against ich, but is quite incomplete as QT goes.

 

[Mrscribbled]

And Scribble, Are You Sure? Ive Read A Few Articles That State Otherwise. One Said They Would Last Over An Hour, But 30 Min Would Be Optimal For A FW Dip.

Yes, ten minutes is the most you want/need to do. Anything less than 5 is inadequate. I have never heard or read of doing a half hour FW bath.


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[KayHouse]

DmortY: Thank You Very Much For The Advise. The Only Reason I Thought To Do Prazi First Was To Let The Fish Sit A Few Extra Days In A Single Tank To Help It Eat Prior To The TTM, But I Do See No Need For A Second Treatment If I Cant See Anything Wrong. It Seems As You Know What You Are Doing, And I Like It This Is What I Plan On.

Wooden: You May Have Over 30 Years Of Experience, R As Ive Found In A Post You Stated Last Year 25 Years... Either Way,I Have Gone Through About 100 Posts Of Yours, And From Your Rude Ways Of Bashing Others And Disrespectfull Words, I Have Chosen To Not Listen To Your Words. I Am Trying To Be Respectful, Though I Did Not See You Do The Same In Past Threads And Gently Let You Know ThaT Your Opinions And Teachings Will Overlooked. Im Sorry, But I Just Dont Wish To Take Advicw From A Person Who Comes Across As Selfish, Rude, And Irrational.
As Far As MyPost. TTM Is Not My Sole Remedy In Quarantine. It Is One Stage, To Rid Ick Only.Nothing More. I Am Not Using TtM For Velvet, Fungus, Lice, Or Any Other Bugs, Just Ich. Along With That, I Plan On Dosing Prazi, And Cup. And After All Of That, I Will Observe To See How The Fish Responds. If I Do This With Every Specimen, Then I Will Never Need To Worry About A DT Breakout Of Ich Because I Would Have Never Introduced It To The Display. Easy Peasy.
As Far As Work, I Understand That It May Be More Work To Do It This Way, Than Others, But It Is The One I Have Chosen, And I Understand The Work That It Will Take. To Have An Aquarium Completely Ick Free, Guaranteed, It Is Worth The Extra Time And Work Imo.
Again I Apologize For Being Rude, But It Seems As Though You Werent Trying To Help Me Find A Better Solution, Just Bagging On A Single Method Of Treatment.

Scribb: I Will Have To Look More, I Would Hate To Tuen My New Fish Into A Floater

 

[Dmorty217]

Kayhouse if Troy start with the tank transfer there are no meds involved so this is the time to get the fish eating and eating well. Then after the two weeks of doing that every 3 days you should put the fish i your QT. then you can treat with prazipro after the fish is eating and has been eating well since it will decrease appitite. Then after the prazipro do the cupramine if you feel necessary. It sounds like you already got what I was explaining I'm just doing it again for confirmation. Most people on here will say no way to copper treatments of any kind, but I have spoke with many on here who have years of experience and currently own harder to keep fish with great success.( I will treat my Achilles with prazipro like you are and the cupramine even if there are no signs of disease) So If i didn't do what I was tought from people who know much more than I, I would be doing myself an my fish a injustice.

 

[Dmorty217]

Sorry about the iPad spellcheck word changing!! When you read my post I don't speak broken English. If you are looking for good advice that is factual and successful read what MrTuskfish has to say on fish disease treatment and QTing, he knows his stuff and trust what he has to say

 

[KayHouse]

Thank You Again Dmorty. Yeah My Droid Has Meen Making Me Sound Pretty Broken As Well Lol. I Have Been Reading Quite A Bit On The Subject And Think I Have A Well Understanding Of What To Do. Now Just Need To Do It I Will Be Using This Method.

thank You Again For The Great Words!

 

[Dmorty217]

Thank You Again Dmorty. Yeah My Droid Has Meen Making Me Sound Pretty Broken As Well Lol. I Have Been Reading Quite A Bit On The Subject And Think I Have A Well Understanding Of What To Do. Now Just Need To Do It I Will Be Using This Method.

thank You Again For The Great Words!

No problem good luck with the TT and QT of your new addition! Happy reefing:beer: