How long before my clowns pass away?

[Awkward]

Hey all, I'm sorry to post a depressing thread, but I need help. I purchased 2 Darwin clowns (juveniles) on 02/11/14. I did not put them in a QT as they are the only fish in my tank. The clowns will not eat at all, and have not since day 1. At first I thought it was just the stress of the move, but I have noticed white stringy feces coming from both of them now. I have relentlessly searched all of the forums and found many threads related to this, but no actual help for fish that aren't eating. One of the clowns will suck food in, but then spit it out right away, the other is not even interested. I have tried garlic flake, pellets of all sizes, mysis, brine, and mixed frozen foods. I literally have about $100 in foods for these guys, but nothing seems to entice them.

It is my understanding that they likely have internal parasites based upon the white feces (also could be from not eating as I understand it?). Is there anyway to treat these internal parasites without the fish actually ingesting the food?

Also regarding a QT; What is the best way to set this up and have the bacteria come with the tank? I hate to rip apart the the DT to use rock in the QT, and have no room to get some bio balls going. I am thinking I can use existing tank water in the QT, but what about the bacteria? I do not want to bring the fish back to the store as I feel that I will give them more attention and try harder to keep them alive.

 

[worm5406]

There is a thread on how to make a QT tank.

If you take some sponge, not kitchen sponge you can seed it then move it to your new tank. but that would have required it earlier.

You can do water changes on the DT INTO the QT to help get rid of ammonia and other items.

Can we get some pictures?

What resources do you have and what have you researched into what you think it is?

 

[MRCYCS805]

Have you tried maybe live brine shrimp?

 

[Awkward]

There is a thread on how to make a QT tank.

If you take some sponge, not kitchen sponge you can seed it then move it to your new tank. but that would have required it earlier.

You can do water changes on the DT INTO the QT to help get rid of ammonia and other items.

Can we get some pictures?

What resources do you have and what have you researched into what you think it is?

I have filter material soaking in my DT now to setup a QT, just wasn't sure of any other ideas. I do not have pictures of the fish with the white stringy feces, but it is just how I explain it. It usually is about half the size of the fish in length, and thin sort of like sewing thread.

I have many LFS's in my area, and should have access to medications if needed. I have read countless threads on this forum and others by using google. There are many medications that people have suggested in other threads, but they all seem to need to be eaten. I believe the parasite is some sort of worm based on my readings. That seems to be the problem that it is hard to pinpoint the cause, and I hate to medicate the fish in something that may kill it if not done correctly (seems to be fairly vague as to what works in what quantities for what I have seen). One of the treatments sounds like I need to get from a vet, and is not actually made for treating fish with worms, but rather dogs and cats.

It could possibly be round worms.

I have not tried live brine shrimp, and will be trying that tomorrow, but I am quite sure that it is not the food that I am offering that is causing them to not eat. My parameters on the water are all spot on, and have been stable for 2 weeks. My husbandry is great (if I had to grade myself I guess). I test every other day, and keep a log of my numbers as I would like to figure out a dosing schedule in the future when my tank matures more.

 

[davocean]

FWIW my clowns came in as juvies as well, and also did not eat for probably just short of a week, and I too was concerned enough to contact the breeder and make sure I was feeding what she was.
Other people I have seen on here have had similar experience too, and mine and other peoples did finally start eating, and mine now almost 5 years old, so don't give up on them yet, it could be something as simple as acclimating to new surroundings.
Pics would help, but in the meantime try cyclopseze, pretty good for finicky eaters.

 

[Awkward]

I believe I should add also that this is not my first reef setup. I previously had a successful 72 bow front for quite some time. I only add that because I feel it is relevant to prevent people from giving me the lecture on my tank numbers. (It just seems forums love checking peoples parameters for good reason, but mine really are where they need to be)

 

[Awkward]

FWIW my clowns came in as juvies as well, and also did not eat for probably just short of a week, and I too was concerned enough to contact the breeder and make sure I was feeding what she was.
Other people I have seen on here have had similar experience too, and mine and other peoples did finally start eating, and mine now almost 5 years old, so don't give up on them yet, it could be something as simple as acclimating to new surroundings.
Pics would help, but in the meantime try cyclopseze, pretty good for finicky eaters.

What kind of pictures would help? I have pics of the fish, just not with the white stringy feces hanging from them. I also have pics of my whole tank on another thread.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2378549

 

[Awkward]

 

[davocean]

Sometimes what looks like nothing to you may show obvious signs in pics, you know, that 1,000 word thingy.
Looking at your pics they "look" ok, so I think I'm sticking to my assumption that they may still be acclimating very similar to what mine did.

 

[davocean]

I only add that because I feel it is relevant to prevent people from giving me the lecture on my tank numbers. (It just seems forums love checking peoples parameters for good reason, but mine really are where they need to be)

I can't tell you how many times I have seen this stated, and then upon receiving numbers the answer to a problem becomes obvious.
You should know your param numbers, and if you are seeking advice, and for people to take the time to write you, you should have the courtesy to provide those numbers so we don't sit here shooting in the dark at all possibilities.

 

[Awkward]

Sometimes what looks like nothing to you may show obvious signs in pics, you know, that 1,000 word thingy.
Looking at your pics they "look" ok, so I think I'm sticking to my assumption that they may still be acclimating very similar to what mine did.

I am praying that you are right! I forgot to add that they are swimming around fine, and even follow me when I come to the tank. They swim back and forth across the tank, although one seems to be "happier" than the other. My concern was mainly because of the feces.

Is it possible that they are stressed because they are still trying to figure out dominance? They came from a tank with about 12-15 of the same species so I don't think any of them actually paired with each other. Also what concerns me is that the smaller one seems to be more dominant that the (barely) larger one. Maybe this is causing them stress?

I really truly appreciate the insight here. I wish I had a good way of thanking ya'll.

 

[davocean]

It's easy to worry on the juvies, they seem so fragile, sometimes they are for reason, most of the time they are not.
Clowns are tougher than most may think.
Contact the breeder and ask what they were fed last, and again, cyclopseze, and patience, positive thinking.

 

[Awkward]

Sometimes what looks like nothing to you may show obvious signs in pics, you know, that 1,000 word thingy.
Looking at your pics they "look" ok, so I think I'm sticking to my assumption that they may still be acclimating very similar to what mine did.

Okie dokie, it's nothing personal, and i do appreciate your time in replying. FWIW I do find it a tad disrespectful for presuming that I don't know what my numbers are and what they mean, but I also understand that there are many people that use the forum as a revolving door to come and go only when they need help. The fact that my post numbers are low does not directly relate to my reef keeping experience, but once again I understand that there is no way for you to know that. Sorry for the rant, I am not trying to be rude or disrespectful, but rather give you my perspective.

Here are my numbers taken yesterday and today

Nitrates-5ppm
Nitrites-0
Ammonia-0
Alk-9
Calcium-400
Mag-1300
Phosphate-0-.25? (I used an API kit which sucks for reading this)
PH-8.2
Salinity 1.025

That is all that I have tests for right now, and will be upgrading the phosphate kit soon.

I have a 2-3 inch sand bed, 12-15lbs LR, HOB filter with only Matrix carbon in it. The filter also has a UV filter built in which is turned on right now. Flow is provided by a Koralia Nano 240. Total of 21W of LED's (Understood that Watts means little with LED's, yet to get a PAR meter to check levels)

My inverts and corals are thriving.

Water changes are done every Friday. 1.5 gallons per change, Temperature's are matched to a tenth of a degree and salinity is matched exactly. Also using RODI water reading 0 on my TDS meter.

 

[Awkward]

It's easy to worry on the juvies, they seem so fragile, sometimes they are for reason, most of the time they are not.
Clowns are tougher than most may think.
Contact the breeder and ask what they were fed last, and again, cyclopseze, and patience, positive thinking.

Once again I really appreciate the help. I have not tried the cyclopeze yet, and will pick that up tomorrow. I'm really hoping they make it, they are not ill looking, I just wanted to get a jump start on anything bad before it got out of hand. I've dealt plenty with Ich, but this is a new one for me.

 

[davocean]

I personally don't assume negative, it's just the normal process of elimination, that checks out as clear and no issues.

 

[worm5406]

Sounds like you are moving forward nicely.

I always ask for water parameters from people, when I start in. It not only lets me see what they do, in their pond, but also can find a quick problem of SG of 1.021 and wonder why things are retracting or breathing heavy all the way to Why can I not control my algae.. type questions.

HAHA..

Just wondering do you have any full tank shots?

 

[snorvich]

Another food to try is nutramar ova which is like crack to fish. Your Numbers are fine. We always start with numbers as a screening tool so don't take offense.

 

[Zacktosterone]

to answer your question about treating for intestinal parasites, PRAZI PRO does an amazing job and you just add it to the tank, it may not be reef safe though i don't really remember

 

[Awkward]

The newest i have is this one..... I will take a new one later today when I get home.

 

[worm5406]

Another food to try is nutramar ova which is like crack to fish. Your Numbers are fine. We always start with numbers as a screening tool so don't take offense.

Plus, if people go 'hummmm..... sg? dkh?' then you can determine how fluent they are and where to start the next question.