How long to START the nitrogen cycle?

RussC

Active member
Guys, I expected an overnight change in parameters after adding 65 pounds of live rock. I expected my ammonia to jump to begin my cycle. Nothing has changed. Its been 4.5 days and still, ammonia is zero. Am I impatient? I just figured this would kick off my cycle overnight. I'm just not seeing any movement on parameters like I expected. Thoughts?
 
Guys, I expected an overnight change in parameters after adding 65 pounds of live rock. I expected my ammonia to jump to begin my cycle. Nothing has changed. Its been 4.5 days and still, ammonia is zero. Am I impatient? I just figured this would kick off my cycle overnight. I'm just not seeing any movement on parameters like I expected. Thoughts?
Have you added a source of ammonia?

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I added 65 pounds of live rock. Thing is, that came from the LFS so there was little time out of water. I would suspect most critters/algae survived. I'm on the hunt for some substrate from an established tank. I just expected a real spike in ammonia when I added that rock. I'm just a little shocked and zero.
 
If it's established live rock and it spent very little time out of water there likely wasn't much die off and you won't see a spike in ammonia. You need to add a source of ammonia to start the cycle. Whether it be a raw shrimp, flake food, or liquid ammonia the choice is yours. I'm sure many will give there preferences.
 
We've told you a few times that you are likely to NOT have a cycle at all as your rock is already full of bacteria that can process ammonia quickly..
Start believing it :p

You bought live rock.. It was already cycled before you got it..
As such.. There will be no cycle/no ammonia spike/no nitrite spike :thumbsup:

You do NOT need to add ammonia either..

Welcome to the reason you buy live rock from your local fish store. ;)
 
You bought live rock.. It was already cycled before you got it..

I respectfully disagree with that statement. Just because it was purchased as live rock doesn't necessarily mean it has been fully cycled yet. I've witnessed a few lfs that get it in and one put it in a small pool and the others used tanks but it wasn't fully cycled yet. However they would still sell it as is. Not saying that was the case here but is possible to buy rock that still needs cycled.
 
Just test, add a shrimp or 6, wait three days and test, if ammonia let it cycle if none your cycled....

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Not saying that was the case here but is possible to buy rock that still needs cycled.

Well yes, but it's also possible to buy rock that doesn't need to be cycled. The point is, the default assumption the OP made (I just bought live rock and now I MUST have a cycle) is wrong.

To the OP - think about it this way. When you "cycle" a system, you are basically growing a colony of bacteria. The bacteria live on the rock and substrate and their number needs to grow to match the nitrogen load in your system. If you add rock that's covered in enough established bacteria to handle your nutrient load, you don't need to grow anything because the thing you're trying to grow already exists.

Imagine if you were buying a hay field to grow hay. If you bought an empty, lifeless field with poor soil, you'd need to fertilize it (add ammonia) and plant seed (add a bacteria source). However, if you bought a field that already had a crop of hay growing in fertile soil, you don't need to do a thing! Adding more fertilizer or more seed will just be a waste at best.
 
If you don't believe mcgyvr...run your own test. Buy pure ammonia and add till you get a reading. Test the water every day and watch it disappear. He knows what he's talking g about and I suspect he is correct. The ammonia is being processed in the already live rock. That's the benefit of having already live rock. Instant cycle when added to a completely new tank.

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I'm going to try a little ghost feeding using Neptune's food that came with the AFS.

As for the rock, it has been sitting in a tub at the LFS. As he sells the pieces, he orders new pieces to replace it. The pieces I bought had been there for a while so, based on what McGyvr says, its likely they have cycled. That's just so hard for me to believe. I've always had to cycle a tank.

We'll know in the next couple days with this ghost feeding how things are going.
 
The problem here is that this hobby uses the word "cycle" to mean vastly different things.

In the old days, when we didn't have access to (or even know about) live rock, you started with a totally sterile environment. "Cycling" meant slowly growing out your bacteria population until it was big enough to handle your nutrient load. It was absolutely a requirement, with good reason.

Now, when people start tanks with live rock as a default, people still talk about "cycling" a new tank. However, in most cases, the required bacterial population is already present, and the "cycling" process is either establishing far more bacteria than you need in a new tank, or the word is used to refer to a process that is utterly unrelated to the original meaning - processing the waste from dieoff as things on the rock slowly decompose. In the (common) scenario where someone gets relatively healthy rock, they don't need to establish bacteria, and there is no dieoff, so when they try to "cycle" the tank, nothing happens. Since people have been told over and over and over again that YOU MUST CYCLE A NEW TANK, they either worry that something is wrong, or they add canned bacteria, or they add ammonia or food, hoping to finally trigger the cycle, when in fact the tank was all ready to go right from the beginning.

I hate to even say this around here because it flies in the face of convention in this hobby and can be taken out of context, but I haven't "cycled" a tank in probably 10 or 15 years. I put in my substrate and rock, add water, wait a few days for things to settle in, and start adding livestock. I know that as long as I'm starting with a reasonable quantity of healthy rock, things will be totally fine. Generally, I use mostly clean sterile dry rock, and a few smaller pieces of "real" live rock from a known-good source.
 
The problem here is that this hobby uses the word "cycle" to mean vastly different things.

In the old days, when we didn't have access to (or even know about) live rock, you started with a totally sterile environment. "Cycling" meant slowly growing out your bacteria population until it was big enough to handle your nutrient load. It was absolutely a requirement, with good reason.

Now, when people start tanks with live rock as a default, people still talk about "cycling" a new tank. However, in most cases, the required bacterial population is already present, and the "cycling" process is either establishing far more bacteria than you need in a new tank, or the word is used to refer to a process that is utterly unrelated to the original meaning - processing the waste from dieoff as things on the rock slowly decompose. In the (common) scenario where someone gets relatively healthy rock, they don't need to establish bacteria, and there is no dieoff, so when they try to "cycle" the tank, nothing happens. Since people have been told over and over and over again that YOU MUST CYCLE A NEW TANK, they either worry that something is wrong, or they add canned bacteria, or they add ammonia or food, hoping to finally trigger the cycle, when in fact the tank was all ready to go right from the beginning.

I hate to even say this around here because it flies in the face of convention in this hobby and can be taken out of context, but I haven't "cycled" a tank in probably 10 or 15 years. I put in my substrate and rock, add water, wait a few days for things to settle in, and start adding livestock. I know that as long as I'm starting with a reasonable quantity of healthy rock, things will be totally fine. Generally, I use mostly clean sterile dry rock, and a few smaller pieces of "real" live rock from a known-good source.

It totally makes sense that the rock I put in my tank has sufficient bacteria. I'm that person...worrying that something is wrong because I've always heard/read YOU MUST CYCLE A NEW TANK.
 
It totally makes sense that the rock I put in my tank has sufficient bacteria. I'm that person...worrying that something is wrong because I've always heard/read YOU MUST CYCLE A NEW TANK.

Hey there gulfport, i'm here in hattiesburg.

"cycling" is essentially the conversion of dry rock to live rock. you bought live rock.... you win

My dry rock took about 4-5 weeks to populate with bacteria. now i'm trying to figure out what i'm going to stock it with.
 
Hey there gulfport, i'm here in hattiesburg.



"cycling" is essentially the conversion of dry rock to live rock. you bought live rock.... you win



My dry rock took about 4-5 weeks to populate with bacteria. now i'm trying to figure out what i'm going to stock it with.



Hey Hattiesburg, say hi to my cousin that moved down there :)
 
I'm that person...worrying that something is wrong because I've always heard/read YOU MUST CYCLE A NEW TANK.

And how... hopefully.. (attempt #3) you've learned thats not always true??? :p

The "intent" of local fish stores selling life rock is so they can sell you a tank, rock, water and a pair of clownfish (Nemo) or Dory and you can take it all home that day and set it up and live happily every after..

No one that watches Finding Nemo is going to want to hear that "um no little girl.. you can't tank that fish home now.. But you can take this lame dry rock and watch it sit in this tank your daddy just paid way too much for a month then you can come get that fish you have been screaming about for the past week"
 
I hate to even say this around here because it flies in the face of convention in this hobby and can be taken out of context, but I haven't "cycled" a tank in probably 10 or 15 years. I put in my substrate and rock, add water, wait a few days for things to settle in, and start adding livestock. I know that as long as I'm starting with a reasonable quantity of healthy rock, things will be totally fine. Generally, I use mostly clean sterile dry rock, and a few smaller pieces of "real" live rock from a known-good source.

der,

Do you still test your tank after those few days of settling in or just assume its good to go based on your experience? How do you know the amount of bacteria you bring in with the live rock is enough to process your tank? I'm asking because I am starting mine the same way, about 50lbs of dry rock and will throw in 3 or 4 of live rock from TampaBaySaltWater to help with the bacteria.
 
der,

Do you still test your tank after those few days of settling in or just assume its good to go based on your experience? How do you know the amount of bacteria you bring in with the live rock is enough to process your tank? I'm asking because I am starting mine the same way, about 50lbs of dry rock and will throw in 3 or 4 of live rock from TampaBaySaltWater to help with the bacteria.

Thats just "seasoned vet instinct" ;)
oh and if we told you we would have to kill you.. secret stuff you know...you get the knowledge once you have the secret decoder ring :p
 
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