How many people live with ich, how many eradicate ich?

[Paul B]

I've seen people panic when they hear that I.O. salt (and others) actually contain some copper.

I guess they never read the side of their ASW box as that also contains copper and so does NSW.
They also don't know that there is copper in the blood of many invertabrates, especially horseshoe crabs which is the reason their blood is blue and not red because of the iron in ours.

 

[HumbleFish]

Yeah, I remember. Adding copper pennies was standard. Now many folks are scared to death of it. I remember a thread from someone who had a copper part from an end-cap drop in the tank and was fished out in seconds. He was sure he had just nuked his whole tank. I've seen people panic when they hear that I.O. salt (and others) actually contain some copper.

There was someone (in another thread) freaked out over the possibility of getting a little copper in his DT from some fish that had been QT'd in copper. I guess in a way it is a legitimate concern; you can never be too careful. But I did chuckle to myself a little about it.

 

[nynick]

you can never be too careful.

Depends, I know someone that scrubbed the very, very dirty liverock with dish-washing liquid "just to make sure". She "made sure" alright.....



Nothing Nemo likes better than the fresh scent of lavender!

 

[GroktheCube]

Its pretty incredible to see how far the hobby is come in so little time.

 

[bu11itt]

There was someone (in another thread) freaked out over the possibility of getting a little copper in his DT from some fish that had been QT'd in copper. I guess in a way it is a legitimate concern; you can never be too careful. But I did chuckle to myself a little about it.

I wouldn't say that I was "œfreaked out""¦ More questioning as I realized there is a lot I do not know, or have yet to learn.

I am glad I was able to give you a nostalgic chuckle maybe by reminding you of some of the initial questions you had and I'm sure the others you've heard over the years.

The ability to seek advice from those who have done it before greatly reduces the learning curve vs a trial/error approach (not that I am opposed to that, but if you've got the resource available, might as well use it) so I definitely appreciate all of the help from everyone here.

 

[HumbleFish]

I wouldn’t say that I was “freaked out”… More questioning as I realized there is a lot I do not know, or have yet to learn.

I am glad I was able to give you a nostalgic chuckle maybe by reminding you of some of the initial questions you had and I’m sure the others you’ve heard over the years.

The ability to seek advice from those who have done it before greatly reduces the learning curve vs a trial/error approach (not that I am opposed to that, but if you've got the resource available, might as well use it) so I definitely appreciate all of the help from everyone here.

Oh, I didn't mean anything by it. Sometimes I just type out loud. When I saw MrTusk's comment about there being traces of copper in our salt; it jogged my memory and then made me think about your post. I've been doing this for 35+ years, have had my share of success and failure, and FWIW am glad to help anyone anyway I can. Cause I am finding myself still in need of advice all the time.

Btw, does your "Southwest, LA" mean Southwest Louisiana or Los Angeles? Just curious. I'm in Monroe right now and have family in New Iberia.

 

[bu11itt]

Oh, I didn't mean anything by it. Sometimes I just type out loud. When I saw MrTusk's comment about there being traces of copper in our salt; it jogged my memory and then made me think about your post. I've been doing this for 35+ years, have had my share of success and failure, and FWIW am glad to help anyone anyway I can. Cause I am finding myself still in need of advice all the time.

Btw, does your "Southwest, LA" mean Southwest Louisiana or Los Angeles? Just curious. I'm in Monroe right now and have family in New Iberia.

I took no offense to your comment, nor did I mean for my reply to come across as if I did (stupid internet doesn't allow for inflection or body language...).

LA stands for Louisiana, Lake Charles specifically. I used to travel a lot for a previous job and when people would ask where I was from I'd say Lake Charles and they' have no idea. I guess people only know New Orleans or Baton Rouge (and I guess that list now includs West Monroe"¦). I just got to the point of saying, "œYou know how Louisiana looks like a boot? Well I live in the heel." Hence the: Southwest, LA.

Back on topic... Ich is an annoying, parasitic organism that irked me when I saw it in my tank so I say kill it dead and never let it get in your tank again (or at least make every effort to achieve that end). Better off if you never let it get there in the first place.

 

[DrPat]

Did your so called hypo treatment seem to work better back then? without having to drop salinity as much?

IT worked some of the times.Eventually we would use a copper and formilin product called Aqua cure 1 drop/gal for 3 days you had to test because it would precipitate out of solution .Then add more it was tricky. I was as lucky as a kid could be. I worked in a landmark tropical fish store in NYC, AQUARIUM STOCK CO.27 MURRY ST. NYC 1969 to 1974. Paul B will recall im sure! they had a sister store in california too. The very first time mandarins were imported we had 25 of them and the sold IN NO TIME for 100 bucks each.There were so many fish coming in ,the red sea shipments were amazing until 73 when Egypt attacked Isreal.We would get direct shipments from hawaii did you ever see 50 half dolllar size yellow tangs swim in a125 gallon. It was great then and its great now in a different way.

 

[Paul B]

I loved Aquarium Stock company and got my first blue devils there in 1971 as that is when I got out of the Army. They lived for 7 years and spawned for most of that time.
They sold sea turtles there for $50.00 and had the best freshwater tank I ever say. It was a NYC biotope with plumbing pipes and an entire toilet bowl in it. Do you remember that tank?

 

[DrPat]

I loved Aquarium Stock company and got my first blue devils there in 1971 as that is when I got out of the Army. They lived for 7 years and spawned for most of that time.
They sold sea turtles there for $50.00 and had the best freshwater tank I ever say. It was a NYC biotope with plumbing pipes and an entire toilet bowl in it. Do you remember that tank?

hi PAUL I dont recall that tank per se but Chris Spere use to make up all the fresh water tanks and he was an artist.I had a seaturtle for a while it use to eat my condylactis anenomes so i brought it back after a while. I couldnt afford to feed it @ $1.25/ hour.

 

[Paul B]

You made a lot of money. I think I made 75 cents an hour when I started as an apprentice electrician, that is why I couldn't afford one of those sea turtles.
I think the blue devils were $7.00

 

[HumbleFish]

I think the blue devils were $7.00

I guess I benefited from my LFS ignorance. They sold blue devils with the reg damsels; 4 for $10 back in the day.

 

[seahorsedreams]

I have read multiple studies on ich that will die off after about 11 months. They can only inbreed 16 cycles before the parasite can not free swim and it dies off. Now the reason nobody in the hobby sees this happen is because. You add a coral, you add an invert or a fish during these 11 months that has ich on it that hasn't been in the system. The second you introduce another strain of ich it starts the clock over. Even if the same strain of ich is introduced from another fish, the ich that is in the system will then reproduce. Hope that clears things up. Now the only way one is going to make it those months is if you have very healthy fish that are either in breeding beast mode, or have a very good immune system from feeding well. Otherwise they won't live those 11 months out


I can also say I have never personally seen this happen, but I have read out of university publishings that this is what they found. I would like to think we can trust marine biologists that do this kind of testing for a living! I will see if I can't put a link up to the journal entries on it.

Inbreeding cannot be an issue. Inbreeding is defined as the breeding of related individuals within an isolated or a closed group. This is not the way Ich reproduces. Ich parasites do not breed with other Ich parasites. All they need is a comfy place to create a cyst in which to clone a bunch of little daughter cells. If any references mention that as a cause, put the book down right there.

As valid as these studies may be, there are researchers that have propagated Ich over two years. Then the study stopped, not the parasites. My personal experience coincides with this as I've had Ich in my tank for 1 year and 7 months. I haven't added a thing to the tank since it was originally set up, so I know it didn't come in on something else at a later time.

Some people can grow flowers, others, while using the same techniques, cannot. The people in your quoted study evidently did not have the Ich green thumb.


Reference for my statement:

Yoshinaga, T. & H.W. Dickerson. 1994. "Laboratory Propagation of Cryptocaryon irritans on a Saltwater-Adapted Poecilia Hybrid, the Black Molly" Journal of Aquatic Animal Health 6:197-201, 1994.

They used Mollies because they then could be 100% certain these freshwater fish never had any prior exposure to saltwater Ich.
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