How many T-5's do you need to put over a 75 gallon to keep clams?
- Thread starter Trumpet12
- Start date
Watts per gallon is meaningless. PAR and how far it penetrates the water is what matters. Different dimensions of tanks and the par of different bulbs makes watts per gallon not work.
And no, just because you have 5 watts per gallon of PCs doesn't mean you have the PAR to sustain clams. Squamosas, derasa, yes they would probalbly be fine. But maximas and croceas? THey wouldn't have good odds of living 6-12 months. I've seen it time and time again in other peoples tanks and even at my LFS. THey have a 55 gallon show tank with 4x65 watt PCs. Corals thrive, lower light clams thrive, but maximas never make it to the 6 month mark. There are exceptions to every rule, but that doesn't make it "ok".
Don't believe me, ask clamsdirect, or East Coast clams, they've both stated here that it's a bad idea. (In fact, Rob from east coast clams was just talking about that in the clam forum)
Our animals should thrive, not just survive.
And no, just because you have 5 watts per gallon of PCs doesn't mean you have the PAR to sustain clams. Squamosas, derasa, yes they would probalbly be fine. But maximas and croceas? THey wouldn't have good odds of living 6-12 months. I've seen it time and time again in other peoples tanks and even at my LFS. THey have a 55 gallon show tank with 4x65 watt PCs. Corals thrive, lower light clams thrive, but maximas never make it to the 6 month mark. There are exceptions to every rule, but that doesn't make it "ok".
Don't believe me, ask clamsdirect, or East Coast clams, they've both stated here that it's a bad idea. (In fact, Rob from east coast clams was just talking about that in the clam forum)
Our animals should thrive, not just survive.
In reference to the PC issue...it's important to keep this in mind:
We all know that these creatures usually take 6 months or so to starve, and they die in the "blink of an eye"....the problem is when they do few people dig up the old threads and say "you were right....I should have listened.....he died a few months later" As a result there are all thse old threads of people "successfully" keeping mandarins in small tanks with feedings and maximas under PCs. It's easy for someone to see all these old threads and think there's lots of folks being successful, when the true number is very, VERY small.
We all know that these creatures usually take 6 months or so to starve, and they die in the "blink of an eye"....the problem is when they do few people dig up the old threads and say "you were right....I should have listened.....he died a few months later" As a result there are all thse old threads of people "successfully" keeping mandarins in small tanks with feedings and maximas under PCs. It's easy for someone to see all these old threads and think there's lots of folks being successful, when the true number is very, VERY small.
firemouth4416
In Memoriam
Peabody you say watts per gallon dont matter and tha PC's and VHO wont work?????
Well you have over 12 watts per gallon and I think anything would thrive under that wattage! If you put that kind of wattage with PC or VHO you argument wouldnt hold water. The reason most people arent sucessful with PC or VHO is that they still dont have the wattage they need. So the comparisons ususlly are not similar.
The hard part is getting the right size tank to fit the bulbs over. You could put 6 120 watt VHO's over a 55 gallon tank I am sure you would be sucessful with that setup. Has anyone done that?
Well you have over 12 watts per gallon and I think anything would thrive under that wattage! If you put that kind of wattage with PC or VHO you argument wouldnt hold water. The reason most people arent sucessful with PC or VHO is that they still dont have the wattage they need. So the comparisons ususlly are not similar.
The hard part is getting the right size tank to fit the bulbs over. You could put 6 120 watt VHO's over a 55 gallon tank I am sure you would be sucessful with that setup. Has anyone done that?
Whoa whoa whoa I never said that. There are people who have successfully kept clams under VHO and PC....I kept a squamosa under PCs once. The fact is, most people (and I've seen plenty in person) who put maximas and croceas under PCs have them die about 6 months later. I've seen it happen in tanks with 4x65s over a 55 gallon, 1x96 over a 10 gallon, etc. All alongside of thriving corals and lower light clams.
Aside from the clam thing...watts per gallon is a VERY poor measurement. What matters is PAR, and how far it gets through the water.
Aside from the clam thing...watts per gallon is a VERY poor measurement. What matters is PAR, and how far it gets through the water.
firemouth4416
In Memoriam
If PAR was available and widely published it would be much more useful, but its not. The only thing left is watts per gallon, as imperfect as it is. The reality is that most people under power when not using MH. Its simply easyier to just get a higher wattage bulb with MH.
Anyway I agree that in the end for super high light demanding applications is simply easyier to go MH. There are just differant applications were somone might not want the look or the other drawbacks of MH. In those applications I think VHO is an option
Why dosnt someone make a simple light meter that you can simply drop in the tank. It could be as simple as a solar powered calculator the size of a credit card. It would simply measure the power that the solar cell collects and rates the light on a scale of 1-10. The light companys should give the away fo free so people can know when to change bulbs and upgrade. Just an idea, Iam full of them good and bad.
Anyway I agree that in the end for super high light demanding applications is simply easyier to go MH. There are just differant applications were somone might not want the look or the other drawbacks of MH. In those applications I think VHO is an option
Why dosnt someone make a simple light meter that you can simply drop in the tank. It could be as simple as a solar powered calculator the size of a credit card. It would simply measure the power that the solar cell collects and rates the light on a scale of 1-10. The light companys should give the away fo free so people can know when to change bulbs and upgrade. Just an idea, Iam full of them good and bad.
See....that would be cool..... life would be really easy if X animal would thrive under y amount of light and there was some little thing to measure that. Wouldn't that be nice 
(why don't you make one of those and get rich! )
The problem is that a lot of newbies (and not so newbies) think or assume that 175 watts of light is 175 watts of light, etc, and it just doesn't work like that. 175 watts of PC, VHO, MH and T5 each have a different amount of PAR. To make matters worse is that different bulbs in all of those catagories have different amounts of PAR. To make matters even worse, MH has the ability to "punch" the PAR through the water very easily being a point source, where the others are spread and don't penetrate the water nearly as well.
Does that mean clams only live under MH? Of course not, I've never said that, and I don't think here anyone ever has. The problem is at least 9 out of ten people who purchase a clam and stick it under PCs have inadaquate light. Get enough, have a good reflector, and place the animal close enough and it can thrive......in almost every case I've seen in person (and plenty I've read about on here) that isn't the case though, and the animal is the one that pays. VHOs are a different story.....it's much less of a gamble than PC from what I've seen in people's tanks. T5s seem to be just as good.
(why don't you make one of those and get rich! )The problem is that a lot of newbies (and not so newbies) think or assume that 175 watts of light is 175 watts of light, etc, and it just doesn't work like that. 175 watts of PC, VHO, MH and T5 each have a different amount of PAR. To make matters worse is that different bulbs in all of those catagories have different amounts of PAR. To make matters even worse, MH has the ability to "punch" the PAR through the water very easily being a point source, where the others are spread and don't penetrate the water nearly as well.
Does that mean clams only live under MH? Of course not, I've never said that, and I don't think here anyone ever has.
The problem is at least 9 out of ten people who purchase a clam and stick it under PCs have inadaquate light. Get enough, have a good reflector, and place the animal close enough and it can thrive......in almost every case I've seen in person (and plenty I've read about on here) that isn't the case though, and the animal is the one that pays. VHOs are a different story.....it's much less of a gamble than PC from what I've seen in people's tanks. T5s seem to be just as good.Similar threads
