How much do you get for your Black Ocellaris?
- Thread starter colby
- Start date
colby
In Memoriam
lol...thanx guys, I know you are not trying to rag on me and I do appreciate the help.
"Business Plan" Colby, "Business Plan"! I'm still on the younger side myself, but I get the impression that you're still in high school. If so, you may have a class available to you along the lines of "Entreprenuership", if so I HIGHLY suggest enrolling."
As far as Entreprenuership goes, I acually was just sent to New York as a representative of youth entreprenuership (that is when the coins were put in my tank...grrr..
) (If you guys get a chance check out africard.org it is a non-profit I co-founded with a few friends and we have actually made a large amount of money thus far and I think you will agree tha I am in fact very entreprenuerial minded. ) As far as a business plan goes, already got one I am working on however I want to make sure I have accurate info hence my some what over zealous approach.... 
"How ORA ships isn't really going to be relevant to you at all since you're not ORA nor are you SHIPPING, but rather just delivering locally. "
I would have to disagree to a certain degree as the way other Mariculture companies operate is very relevant to me. In fact a true entrepenuer simply capitalizes on the previous work of others and makes small changes to suit their needs and appeal to the public. I feel that if I knew how many fish ORA shipped per bag I could have some small idea of how many I can expect to put in a bag to ship, albeit it will take experimentaion on my part to come up with the right number.
"BTW, that Business Plan might be the ticket to show your parents that you're serious and that a 10 gallon QT tank might be a worthwhile investment. Personally, if your folks won't let you set up a 10 gallon tank (I hear ya, Renee treats my breeding the same way!), I kinda wonder how you're going to set up ALL THE TANKS you'd need to get to the production levels you're talking about. Seriously, how are you going to get away with that? It doesn't make any sense to me."
Lol...well parents...what are you gonna do? The thing wih my parents is, "show me the money." If they see that I there is a market for clownfish...AFTER I have sold some thena QT tan may look reasonable to them...
Again everyone thanx for the help, I apologize if anything I have said comes off as hostile as that was not my intention at all..
Thanx,
Colby
"Business Plan" Colby, "Business Plan"! I'm still on the younger side myself, but I get the impression that you're still in high school. If so, you may have a class available to you along the lines of "Entreprenuership", if so I HIGHLY suggest enrolling."
As far as Entreprenuership goes, I acually was just sent to New York as a representative of youth entreprenuership (that is when the coins were put in my tank...grrr..
) (If you guys get a chance check out africard.org it is a non-profit I co-founded with a few friends and we have actually made a large amount of money thus far and I think you will agree tha I am in fact very entreprenuerial minded. ) As far as a business plan goes, already got one I am working on however I want to make sure I have accurate info hence my some what over zealous approach.... "How ORA ships isn't really going to be relevant to you at all since you're not ORA nor are you SHIPPING, but rather just delivering locally. "
I would have to disagree to a certain degree as the way other Mariculture companies operate is very relevant to me. In fact a true entrepenuer simply capitalizes on the previous work of others and makes small changes to suit their needs and appeal to the public. I feel that if I knew how many fish ORA shipped per bag I could have some small idea of how many I can expect to put in a bag to ship, albeit it will take experimentaion on my part to come up with the right number.
"BTW, that Business Plan might be the ticket to show your parents that you're serious and that a 10 gallon QT tank might be a worthwhile investment. Personally, if your folks won't let you set up a 10 gallon tank (I hear ya, Renee treats my breeding the same way!), I kinda wonder how you're going to set up ALL THE TANKS you'd need to get to the production levels you're talking about. Seriously, how are you going to get away with that? It doesn't make any sense to me."
Lol...well parents...what are you gonna do? The thing wih my parents is, "show me the money." If they see that I there is a market for clownfish...AFTER I have sold some thena QT tan may look reasonable to them...
Again everyone thanx for the help, I apologize if anything I have said comes off as hostile as that was not my intention at all..
Thanx,
Colby
Hey Colby, I like your confidence and you seem like a real go getter! It seems to me that you have invested some good ammount of time thinking about the fish breeding game, and it can be quite good to you. In my opinion I really think you should invest some time into a real business plan. Just like anything els, this business does have it's ups and downs and you should always have some sort of back up plan. I do not knock you about your 10 gallon QT tank because soon enough you will be in charge of all that kind of stuff! Most of us fail because of a poor market for the prospective business, inadequate capital, poor management, or most important, LACK OF ADEQUATE PLANNING! I agree when others tell you to start small and then grow. in the mean time learn the business inside and out, make good contacts and alies, and as soon as possible, get a hold of your local chamber of commerce. They will help you set up a real business plan and give you many of the resources you need. Good luck!!!
colby
In Memoriam
lol...thanx guys, I know you are not trying to rag on me and I do appreciate the help.
"Business Plan" Colby, "Business Plan"! I'm still on the younger side myself, but I get the impression that you're still in high school. If so, you may have a class available to you along the lines of "Entreprenuership", if so I HIGHLY suggest enrolling."
As far as Entreprenuership goes, I acually was just sent to New York as a representative of youth entreprenuership (that is when the coins were put in my tank...grrr.. ) (If you guys get a chance check out africard.org it is a non-profit I co-founded with a few friends and we have actually made a large amount of money thus far and I think you will agree tha I am in fact very entreprenuerial minded. ) As far as a business plan goes, already got one I am working on however I want to make sure I have accurate info hence my some what over zealous approach....
"How ORA ships isn't really going to be relevant to you at all since you're not ORA nor are you SHIPPING, but rather just delivering locally. "
I would have to disagree to a certain degree as the way other Mariculture companies operate is very relevant to me. In fact a true entrepenuer simply capitalizes on the previous work of others and makes small changes to suit their needs and appeal to the public. I feel that if I knew how many fish ORA shipped per bag I could have some small idea of how many I can expect to put in a bag to ship, albeit it will take experimentaion on my part to come up with the right number.
"BTW, that Business Plan might be the ticket to show your parents that you're serious and that a 10 gallon QT tank might be a worthwhile investment. Personally, if your folks won't let you set up a 10 gallon tank (I hear ya, Renee treats my breeding the same way!), I kinda wonder how you're going to set up ALL THE TANKS you'd need to get to the production levels you're talking about. Seriously, how are you going to get away with that? It doesn't make any sense to me."
Lol...well parents...what are you gonna do? The thing wih my parents is, "show me the money." If they see that I there is a market for clownfish...AFTER I have sold some thena QT tan may look reasonable to them...
Again everyone thanx for the help, I apologize if anything I have said comes off as hostile as that was not my intention at all..
Thanx,
Colby
"Business Plan" Colby, "Business Plan"! I'm still on the younger side myself, but I get the impression that you're still in high school. If so, you may have a class available to you along the lines of "Entreprenuership", if so I HIGHLY suggest enrolling."
As far as Entreprenuership goes, I acually was just sent to New York as a representative of youth entreprenuership (that is when the coins were put in my tank...grrr..
) (If you guys get a chance check out africard.org it is a non-profit I co-founded with a few friends and we have actually made a large amount of money thus far and I think you will agree tha I am in fact very entreprenuerial minded. ) As far as a business plan goes, already got one I am working on however I want to make sure I have accurate info hence my some what over zealous approach.... "How ORA ships isn't really going to be relevant to you at all since you're not ORA nor are you SHIPPING, but rather just delivering locally. "
I would have to disagree to a certain degree as the way other Mariculture companies operate is very relevant to me. In fact a true entrepenuer simply capitalizes on the previous work of others and makes small changes to suit their needs and appeal to the public. I feel that if I knew how many fish ORA shipped per bag I could have some small idea of how many I can expect to put in a bag to ship, albeit it will take experimentaion on my part to come up with the right number.
"BTW, that Business Plan might be the ticket to show your parents that you're serious and that a 10 gallon QT tank might be a worthwhile investment. Personally, if your folks won't let you set up a 10 gallon tank (I hear ya, Renee treats my breeding the same way!), I kinda wonder how you're going to set up ALL THE TANKS you'd need to get to the production levels you're talking about. Seriously, how are you going to get away with that? It doesn't make any sense to me."
Lol...well parents...what are you gonna do? The thing wih my parents is, "show me the money." If they see that I there is a market for clownfish...AFTER I have sold some thena QT tan may look reasonable to them...
Again everyone thanx for the help, I apologize if anything I have said comes off as hostile as that was not my intention at all..
Thanx,
Colby
clownfish75
New member
HI
I would think that the retailer is pulling your chain, if a wholesaler payes $4 then the retailer is paying at least $8-10 per fish, if you create the price disparity it keeps all your customers happy, if you sell to boht at the same price you are cutting your own throat in the future.
I have had black ocellaris into america for $16US so i think you guys could be under valueing the fish!!!!
As far as your plan goes sounds good, but producing 2000 clownfish per month is no mean feat, im still searching for such numbers, it is hard work and breeding 2000 is very different from breeding a few 100, water quality goes bad as you look at it letalone everything else.
One other thing to consider if you only breed black ocellaris you will be restricted to just supplying the one species, so you may not get sales in all places as they may not really love them, if you get some different species then you will also improve sales as they are more likely to need a few of both sorts.
If you sell 1000+ in the local area say half a state, you will certainly flood the market and drive your own price down. If you have heaps of retailers keen in your local area you have a tidy little earner there, go for it. And as someone else said you move into the league of aquaculture/commercial gear and it can be a very different thing, my system costs $1000 just to look at, anything you want to do costs at least that much, $500 just to service the chiller that keeps breaking!!!! And im still working towards this 2000 a month figure!
Christian
I would think that the retailer is pulling your chain, if a wholesaler payes $4 then the retailer is paying at least $8-10 per fish, if you create the price disparity it keeps all your customers happy, if you sell to boht at the same price you are cutting your own throat in the future.
I have had black ocellaris into america for $16US so i think you guys could be under valueing the fish!!!!
As far as your plan goes sounds good, but producing 2000 clownfish per month is no mean feat, im still searching for such numbers, it is hard work and breeding 2000 is very different from breeding a few 100, water quality goes bad as you look at it letalone everything else.
One other thing to consider if you only breed black ocellaris you will be restricted to just supplying the one species, so you may not get sales in all places as they may not really love them, if you get some different species then you will also improve sales as they are more likely to need a few of both sorts.
If you sell 1000+ in the local area say half a state, you will certainly flood the market and drive your own price down. If you have heaps of retailers keen in your local area you have a tidy little earner there, go for it. And as someone else said you move into the league of aquaculture/commercial gear and it can be a very different thing, my system costs $1000 just to look at, anything you want to do costs at least that much, $500 just to service the chiller that keeps breaking!!!! And im still working towards this 2000 a month figure!
Christian
colby
In Memoriam
Christian,
I plan on selling around 1000 regular Ocellaris a month, 500 Black and possibly 500 Maroons (that is if the stupid things will ever breed, I am really regretting selling my old breeding pair....grrr)
I am aware that it will require lots more space, money and time but I thik it will be worth it given the market around here.
Colby
I plan on selling around 1000 regular Ocellaris a month, 500 Black and possibly 500 Maroons (that is if the stupid things will ever breed, I am really regretting selling my old breeding pair....grrr)
I am aware that it will require lots more space, money and time but I thik it will be worth it given the market around here.
Colby
mwp
In Memoriam
Colby, none of your comments came off as hostile...just good debate.
The reason I suggest that what ORA does for shipping is not relevant is because hopefully you'll be able to pack, drop and ship in a MUCH shorter timespan...which in theory translates to many more fish in a bag...but then again, start working with nastier fish and you may have to go singly (which of course translates to much more time spent bagging). Basically, if you packed exactly the same or even close to the way ORA packs, you may be making more work (or working less efficiently) than you could be. The best way to figure out what you can do is unfortunatley trail and error....something I know you'd like to avoid.
I don't know the CA market and David M obviously has a much more experienced point of view on that, but the prices and numbers still seem very optimistic considering what I've seen here in Chicago. We haven't even talked about the seasonal swings (i.e. summer is horrible for fish sales in Chicago, holiday season and the following months, especially Feb-March-April) seem to be peaks. Someone who can move 1000 occellaris in May might not be able to move 250 in August. Maybe CA, with it's more stable climate, isn't affected by this type of fluctuation.
One other thing to consider, our hobby is definitely a "luxury" so the economy definitely plays a factor in the general sales at retail.
You can't go wrong if you grow organically...well, you will have to make SOME initial investments no matter what, but keep those to a minimum of course! I do wish you lots of luck and success...10+ years ago my DREAM was to run a hatchery that specializes in Victorian Cichlids - I'd still LOVE to do so except there is almost no market for them so I'd have to literally CREATE a market here in the states OR be able to ship worldwide and I STILL would probably produce more than I could ever sell. Darn endangered beautiful fish that no one wants....
One last annecdote, not entirely relevant but to give you an idea of how things can work. When "Hap. sp. "Hippo Point Salmon" "was first released from the VSSP, we were there to jump on those AWESOME dwarfs from Victoria. Broodstock cost us $29 a shot which in the end was actually CHEAP at the time - subsequent releases went for a lot more initially. We lost at least 50% the 20-30 fish in the first month...can't say why but they just didn't transition well. In the end I think we never really recouped our initial investment at the wholesale level before we had to close shop. Now they're practically a glut on the market to the point where if you wanted to get them for $5 each or less you probably could. Thankfully most marine fish aren't nearly as fecund.
Don't even get me started on where our Albino H. latifasciata broodstock disappeared to when the hatchery closed up...2 years later they show up on a Florida fish farmer's offerings as a "new fish"....
Be VERY conservative in your figures and then be plesantly surprised if you do better and pat yourself on the back.
Oh, and don't even think of Mandarins - the sleepless nights, the good money after bad...I'll crack 'em ('cause it's already been done) but I think I'll want hundreds for the first saleable babies even though I know I'll NEVER get it
Then again...if you want to keep the "joy" in it, it may be worthwhile to try something no one's done yet, just to keep the interest in it so it doesn't go from a passion to a chore. Hawkfish? Wrasses? Anthias? Butterflies? I know...Blue Spotted JAWFISH - there's my personal holy grail of home-breeding - stuck waiting until at least next year (and/or a much bigger tank) but man, there has to be some serious money there for the person who can do those successfully!
MP
The reason I suggest that what ORA does for shipping is not relevant is because hopefully you'll be able to pack, drop and ship in a MUCH shorter timespan...which in theory translates to many more fish in a bag...but then again, start working with nastier fish and you may have to go singly (which of course translates to much more time spent bagging). Basically, if you packed exactly the same or even close to the way ORA packs, you may be making more work (or working less efficiently) than you could be. The best way to figure out what you can do is unfortunatley trail and error....something I know you'd like to avoid.
I don't know the CA market and David M obviously has a much more experienced point of view on that, but the prices and numbers still seem very optimistic considering what I've seen here in Chicago. We haven't even talked about the seasonal swings (i.e. summer is horrible for fish sales in Chicago, holiday season and the following months, especially Feb-March-April) seem to be peaks. Someone who can move 1000 occellaris in May might not be able to move 250 in August. Maybe CA, with it's more stable climate, isn't affected by this type of fluctuation.
One other thing to consider, our hobby is definitely a "luxury" so the economy definitely plays a factor in the general sales at retail.
You can't go wrong if you grow organically...well, you will have to make SOME initial investments no matter what, but keep those to a minimum of course! I do wish you lots of luck and success...10+ years ago my DREAM was to run a hatchery that specializes in Victorian Cichlids - I'd still LOVE to do so except there is almost no market for them so I'd have to literally CREATE a market here in the states OR be able to ship worldwide and I STILL would probably produce more than I could ever sell. Darn endangered beautiful fish that no one wants....
One last annecdote, not entirely relevant but to give you an idea of how things can work. When "Hap. sp. "Hippo Point Salmon" "was first released from the VSSP, we were there to jump on those AWESOME dwarfs from Victoria. Broodstock cost us $29 a shot which in the end was actually CHEAP at the time - subsequent releases went for a lot more initially. We lost at least 50% the 20-30 fish in the first month...can't say why but they just didn't transition well. In the end I think we never really recouped our initial investment at the wholesale level before we had to close shop. Now they're practically a glut on the market to the point where if you wanted to get them for $5 each or less you probably could. Thankfully most marine fish aren't nearly as fecund.
Don't even get me started on where our Albino H. latifasciata broodstock disappeared to when the hatchery closed up...2 years later they show up on a Florida fish farmer's offerings as a "new fish"....
Be VERY conservative in your figures and then be plesantly surprised if you do better and pat yourself on the back.
Oh, and don't even think of Mandarins - the sleepless nights, the good money after bad...I'll crack 'em ('cause it's already been done) but I think I'll want hundreds for the first saleable babies even though I know I'll NEVER get it
Then again...if you want to keep the "joy" in it, it may be worthwhile to try something no one's done yet, just to keep the interest in it so it doesn't go from a passion to a chore. Hawkfish? Wrasses? Anthias? Butterflies? I know...Blue Spotted JAWFISH - there's my personal holy grail of home-breeding - stuck waiting until at least next year (and/or a much bigger tank) but man, there has to be some serious money there for the person who can do those successfully!
MP
mwp
In Memoriam
Christian, definitely some good points. There's 0 chance for success if you sell to wholesale at $4 and retailers at $4...you'll lose the wholesaler REALLY QUICKLY...heck I have a hard time in general believing that a wholesaler will purchase from you if you're selling to his clients at ANY price level (unless it's HIGHER than the highest price the wholesaler might ask for your fish). I certainly wouldn't....if I were wholesaling fish buying from a "farmer" the last thing I'd want to hear is that you're also selling directly to my clients..."screw that" I can go somewhere else. Heck, I'd probably try to drive you out of the market if I could by undercutting your prices...it's really EASY to take a hit on occellaris and run a "special" just to make you look super expensive...they have a lot more invested and a lot more money to play with than a private breeder. Bottom line, treat those wholesalers you consider selling with lots of respect or they could put you out of business really quickly. Not saying that they WILL, but that they COULD. Afterall, if you are selling to retailers, they you ARE competition for the wholesalers that also sell to these retailers.
Guess what happened to Cichlid Breeders who marketed to our local clients...bye bye orders from our facility (and there went the Chicago market for those breeders). Bottom line, when I ran the hatchery (which also resold at a wholesale level) I didn't purchase from anyone who'd sell directly to my clients. Colby, the only real way you might have piqued my interest would have been to sell to me at such a STEEP discount that I could undercut your price to my clients.
The only reason Black OC's are up there is because they're REALLY not easy to find...availability fluctuates (and of course, they're not an easy clown to produce either). If they were always around, well, they'd probably be on par with regular Ocellaris! The funny part is, when they're "not around" the price is higher, and well, when they show up the price goes down. It's just like Helfrichi's and Blue Spotted Jawfish. 2-3 months ago you could find Helfrichi's for under $150 online...now try to do the same. BSJs...at one point one etailer was blowing them out the door at $75...those that didn't and still have them are now easily getting $200. So yeah, Colby, if you suddenly are ABLE to steadily produce 500 Black OC's a month it IS quite possible that the retail price would have to come down to move 'em. Sure, right now the LFS will take 'em at $15 ea. because that's the going price and he can't always get them. If suddenly they're always around and he finds himself sitting on them, there's only a couple way things can go. Suddenly they lose their appeal because maybe they're not so rare afterall, sales dry up, he has to put them on sale, and well, he either won't purchase OR he'll want to pay as much. SAVVY retailers will purposely STOP stocking a fish for a while if it's movement slows....that's the only way they can keep their prices up. Your clients may purchase steadily for a couple months, meet the backlog of demand, and then poof...no orders for 2 months (and all of a sudden you have all these extra clowns that you either raise larger to sell at the same price as before OR have to put on sale). OR I could have just summed it up with the standard phrase, consider the laws of "Supply and Demand" as they will definitely apply.
I know I'm really rehashing things over and over and man I'm probably shooting off my keyboard more than I should, I got in the business at 13 and got out around 23 for very good reason.
OK, Colby, 500 Black OC's at $15 each - $7500 per month. Now, a few years back but kinda still relevant...the entire FW department of a top-5 Chicago Shop ran on around $2k per month in the late 90's, and that INCLUDES all the rare stuff, cichlids, discus, oddball plecos..now that's FW but still, think about it. You're planning on generating an amount of revenue from ONE SPECIES of marine fish that's equivelent to the operating budgets for the entire freshwater DEPARTMENT of 3 pet stores? Man, either CA is THE PLACE that everyone should be selling or somehow I just don't see those numbers coming through even IF you can produce them!
Again, I'd REALLY REALLY low ball your numbers to get a more realistic view. Around here I could probably easily move 50 Black OC's at $15 a shot...if I had 500 a month to move, well, the stores I'd have to go to to move that volume would want to pay $7-10 a shot...I just know that's how the largest shops around here work. The BIG VOLUME retailers that are successful here PINCH their suppliers, buy in BIG quantity and sell CHEAPLY...and I'm talking the independants...not the Petcos and such.
David, is California just that much more of a hotbed of retail fish sales? Granted, you do have LA and San Diego in pretty close proximity...Chicago only has "Milwaukee", "Madison", "Rockford' and "Peoria"....I think Chicago metro probalby does more business than all of those next 4 combined, and that's looking in a 2 hour's radius. Man, that's 2 hours each way as it is. I just don't think I could EVER move the numbers Colby's talking about without shipping and having good relationships across the country.
Cobly, again, not trying to be discouraging but from over here to the east, I just don't see how it's possible at the SCALE you're considering. I'd personally really love to see a business plan. I'll try to keep my keyboard "shut" for a while and hope for the best! I AM keeping my finger's crossed.
MP
David M
New member
Let me say that I really like this thread, I am on the verge of launching just this sort of business and it's giving me some good things to think about.
Here is the deal on the wholesale/ retail issue. You have to remember one thing, this is not an industry that attracts people with huge salaries, at some level most of the folks involved are or have been hobbyists interested in fish. That is important to remember. Sure there are the "pure business" types but from what I'm seeing they are the minority. Why does this matter? It matters because so far the majority of the retail owners and wholesale reps I have talked with are very supportive of my goals, to the point where two LFS actually call me if a nice pair gets traded in and one of them even gives them to me if I want them. They are trying to help me, they are hobbyists supportive of captive breeding and they know that in the long run they will benefit if I succeed. I spoke with a wholesale rep a few weeks back. Sure he would love to buy my ocellaris but even he agreed I would be nuts to sell him anything other than excess I can't sell direct to retailers. He completely understands that if I don't make money I stop breeding, if I stop breeding he gets nothing . So from his pint of view he's happy to have tomato clowns, gsm's and some ocellaris and not the least bit concered about me "competing" with him. He told me there are over 1000 retailers of sw fish in So Cal and I should have no problem selling (my goal of) 1000 per month. I could do that with 20 stores based on my sales to date. He told me they sell that many each week , and that is just one wholesaler
The idea that the wholesale biz would be threatened by me selling to their customers is a joke, I couldn't even make a dent in their volume and they ship all over the country, I'd only be selling locally. Trust me, they are NOT concerned about this and in fact are supportive of it.
Market fluctuations, economy, consumer trends; all true but every business has to deal with them, not just a fish breeder The thing is the tropical fish keeping hobby is on the rise , not static or declining. The industry is growing by leaps and bounds, every time you open a FAMA there is a new wholesaler advertizing and at least 2 or 3 new e-tailers. Every week another dozen or so online vendors pop up offering "cherry picked" corals and fish. One of my lfs buddies is actually a full scale pet shop with everything except dogs & cats. They specialize in exotic reptiles but he tells me the sw section of the store has been the major money maker for the past couple years. Do I think I'm gonna do this for 20 years? Heck no, but I do think I can make a damned good run for the next 5 years or so and that's all I'm looking for. I think Joe L said it all in the title of that mag article, " The opportunity is NOW"
Here is the deal on the wholesale/ retail issue. You have to remember one thing, this is not an industry that attracts people with huge salaries, at some level most of the folks involved are or have been hobbyists interested in fish. That is important to remember. Sure there are the "pure business" types but from what I'm seeing they are the minority. Why does this matter? It matters because so far the majority of the retail owners and wholesale reps I have talked with are very supportive of my goals, to the point where two LFS actually call me if a nice pair gets traded in and one of them even gives them to me if I want them. They are trying to help me, they are hobbyists supportive of captive breeding and they know that in the long run they will benefit if I succeed. I spoke with a wholesale rep a few weeks back. Sure he would love to buy my ocellaris but even he agreed I would be nuts to sell him anything other than excess I can't sell direct to retailers. He completely understands that if I don't make money I stop breeding, if I stop breeding he gets nothing . So from his pint of view he's happy to have tomato clowns, gsm's and some ocellaris and not the least bit concered about me "competing" with him. He told me there are over 1000 retailers of sw fish in So Cal and I should have no problem selling (my goal of) 1000 per month. I could do that with 20 stores based on my sales to date. He told me they sell that many each week , and that is just one wholesaler
The idea that the wholesale biz would be threatened by me selling to their customers is a joke, I couldn't even make a dent in their volume and they ship all over the country, I'd only be selling locally. Trust me, they are NOT concerned about this and in fact are supportive of it. Market fluctuations, economy, consumer trends; all true but every business has to deal with them, not just a fish breeder
The thing is the tropical fish keeping hobby is on the rise , not static or declining. The industry is growing by leaps and bounds, every time you open a FAMA there is a new wholesaler advertizing and at least 2 or 3 new e-tailers. Every week another dozen or so online vendors pop up offering "cherry picked" corals and fish. One of my lfs buddies is actually a full scale pet shop with everything except dogs & cats. They specialize in exotic reptiles but he tells me the sw section of the store has been the major money maker for the past couple years. Do I think I'm gonna do this for 20 years? Heck no, but I do think I can make a damned good run for the next 5 years or so and that's all I'm looking for. I think Joe L said it all in the title of that mag article, " The opportunity is NOW"
colby
In Memoriam
Thank you everyone for the advice.
MWP,
You bring up some great points and gave me a lot to think about.
David,
I have really enjoyed this post as well thus far It is nice to hear your point of view on the whole retail/wholesale issue. And in fact my goal is ultimately to sell 1000 Ocellaris, 500 black Ocellaris and 500 maroons a month to about 20 lfs's if possible (Although I would like to get a few new back up pairs to be safe.)
Again thank you everyone for not killing me for er...umm.."beating a dead horse" lol.
Colby
MWP,
You bring up some great points and gave me a lot to think about.
David,
I have really enjoyed this post as well thus far
It is nice to hear your point of view on the whole retail/wholesale issue. And in fact my goal is ultimately to sell 1000 Ocellaris, 500 black Ocellaris and 500 maroons a month to about 20 lfs's if possible (Although I would like to get a few new back up pairs to be safe.)Again thank you everyone for not killing me for er...umm.."beating a dead horse" lol.
Colby
RCS
In Memoriam
We had the same setup at a store I used to work at. Locally-produced fish almost ALWAYS fare better than imported fish, whether they're captive-bred/raised or wild imports. The less time in transit, the better the fish handle most stress.
I'm planning on doing some breeding myself (small-scale, nothing along the lines of what you have planned), so this is all good information for me as well. I lean more towards propping corals (had a fun roap trip to Indianapolis this weekend and am now the proud owner of 19 250w metal halide low-bay fixtures!), but once they're making some money, then breeding will be a good supplemental source of income (and pride!).
tangyreefer05
New member
No offense, but don't you think this is out of your budget and league? I could see maybe breeding some in your 90g or whatever you have and making some extra cash in your pocket. But from what i've read it takes serious time, money, and space. Do you have a large aquarium? Do you have space in your parents house for a 400g? or many tanks? Are you still in high school or working part time? How would you work at a good full time job 8 hours a day, and take care of all those clowns? I understand maybe you want to make the breeding your main job, but getting the money isnt easy, unless your very rich and spoiled No offense, maybe I am not seeing the right picture as I don't know your life, but I don't see it happening from what I read in this thread.
No offense, maybe I am not seeing the right picture as I don't know your life, but I don't see it happening from what I read in this thread.
David M
New member
Colby has not said how old he is or if he has finished high school yet but his position could actually be quite enviable. Let's say he just graduated or maybe has one more year. There is no huge rush to get a career going or race off to college at 18 or so, waiting a year is not gonna kill him. Most likely his parents are not chomping at the bit to get him out of the house. No bills to pay, free room & board, and time to kill. Sounds like the perfect opportunity to try this. A part time job (lfs maybe) would give him a little spending money and leave time for raising fish. As it sounds like he already has breeeding experience and is confident he can raise fish, a year is long enough to get a small scale (low budget) pilot program going and be able to make predictions on it's viability. If it's a bust there is always a job or university to turn to. It really comes down to winning the support of his parents, who at this point don't sound all that encouraging. I applaud his determination and wish I was that focused at his age. I think if he can win over his folks he has a real shot at making it work. If he is as pig headed at keeping fish alive as he is about asking questions he can't possibly fail
Colby- get a copy of the Oct/Nov Coral magazine, open it to Joe L's article and accidently leave it on the kitchen counter. It works on wives, maybe parents too :smokin:
Colby- get a copy of the Oct/Nov Coral magazine, open it to Joe L's article and accidently leave it on the kitchen counter. It works on wives, maybe parents too :smokin:
David M
New member
It sells at most better lfs around here, I don't know if it's available online. The office number for subscription is 714-543-4100, maybe they can hook you up with back issues too.
The article isn't going to tell you anything you don't already know but it's very encouraging
Maybe leaving this lay on the kitchen counter works on husbands too
The article isn't going to tell you anything you don't already know but it's very encouraging
Maybe leaving this lay on the kitchen counter works on husbands too
colby
In Memoriam
Lol, thanx I will definently have to get the magazine.
In fact I am out of High School in three days!! I know it sounds like I may not be in the best sitation to do this however, I think I have a pretty good shot. Seeing as how I have no kids or other dependants outside of car, insurance, girlfriend and other payments (which I do pay for with my job...) I have no real pressing need for money. So I think now is a great time in life to try and get this thing going, if I fail no biggie, I still have the rest of my life ahead of me. Thanks again everyone for the support I appreciate it.
One more question do female clowns have ovipositors that are visible at breeding time? I ask because my largest female Ocellaris (bout 4") looks to me like she has one protruding. I have been saturation feeding them as well as 40% water changes every day and she is definently getting fatter nad more agressive indicating breding behavior. The thing is in the past all the clowns I had breeding were like 2.5" so I couldnt ever really see an ovipositor so I just wondered. Thanx guys.
Colby
In fact I am out of High School in three days!! I know it sounds like I may not be in the best sitation to do this however, I think I have a pretty good shot. Seeing as how I have no kids or other dependants outside of car, insurance, girlfriend
and other payments (which I do pay for with my job...) I have no real pressing need for money. So I think now is a great time in life to try and get this thing going, if I fail no biggie, I still have the rest of my life ahead of me. Thanks again everyone for the support I appreciate it.One more question do female clowns have ovipositors that are visible at breeding time? I ask because my largest female Ocellaris (bout 4") looks to me like she has one protruding. I have been saturation feeding them as well as 40% water changes every day and she is definently getting fatter nad more agressive indicating breding behavior. The thing is in the past all the clowns I had breeding were like 2.5" so I couldnt ever really see an ovipositor so I just wondered. Thanx guys.
Colby
colby
In Memoriam
Ok well once again I asked a questiion before doing enough research...go figure According to Wilkersons book the female does indeed have an ovipositor and I am fairly confident this is what I am seeing on my female...butmit doesn really make sense. Considering I have only had this pair for 3-4 weeks, they are in a new environment, had to recover from ich, dealt with my terrorizing little bro throwing socks, harmonicas, coins and whatever else in the tank in my absence...all in all they shoud by all accounts be a nervous heap, yet they are not. So i am wondering if perhaps the ovipositor being extended it a result of the saturation feeding or perhaps the massive daily waterchanges.. what do you think? I know the water changes may be slighlty over kill, but seeing as how my pairs are in ten gallons I would rather err on the side of caution. Thanx again,
Colby
According to Wilkersons book the female does indeed have an ovipositor and I am fairly confident this is what I am seeing on my female...butmit doesn really make sense. Considering I have only had this pair for 3-4 weeks, they are in a new environment, had to recover from ich, dealt with my terrorizing little bro throwing socks, harmonicas, coins and whatever else in the tank in my absence...all in all they shoud by all accounts be a nervous heap, yet they are not. So i am wondering if perhaps the ovipositor being extended it a result of the saturation feeding or perhaps the massive daily waterchanges.. what do you think? I know the water changes may be slighlty over kill, but seeing as how my pairs are in ten gallons I would rather err on the side of caution. Thanx again,Colby
RCS
In Memoriam
It took my Banggais about 6 weeks to have their first brood of fry, so there's no set time limit to expect. Pat yourself on the back and consider yourself lucky it may happen in this short of a timespan!
Just from having bred numerous freshwater fish, I would agree with what you've found in that it's highly likely the female would have an ovipositor that woul protrude when she's preparing to "posit" her "ovis".
Just from having bred numerous freshwater fish, I would agree with what you've found in that it's highly likely the female would have an ovipositor that woul protrude when she's preparing to "posit" her "ovis".
