How to deal with death
- Thread starter PHIN FAN
- Start date
chocolateblnt
New member
I cried into my tank to help raise salinity 
...
... I am kidding please do not send me PM's of the adverse effects of tears in aquaria :lol2:
... ... I am kidding please do not send me PM's of the adverse effects of tears in aquaria :lol2:
falcondob
New member
As keepers of "captive" reef animals, we have a responsibility to provide those creatures the best environment and care possible. The loss of any life is problematic for humans. We understand loss. We feel loss. This is an issue that goes back as far as man has recorded his actions. Native Americans gave tribute to the animals they killed for food. This, and other rites, are steeped in the guilt we feel when have to kill to eat. Feeling loss is human and it is ok.
Having said that, the animals you keep have really won the the "fish" lottery. That is, if you are a responsible caretaker. From your post I must assume that to be true. In reality, those fish would have probably suffered a similar demise in the wild, only at a much earlier age. Growing old is not the rule in nature, it is the exception.
Do your best, accept any losses, and then move on. Nature does.
Having said that, the animals you keep have really won the the "fish" lottery. That is, if you are a responsible caretaker. From your post I must assume that to be true. In reality, those fish would have probably suffered a similar demise in the wild, only at a much earlier age. Growing old is not the rule in nature, it is the exception.
Do your best, accept any losses, and then move on. Nature does.
reiple
New member
What really bugs me a lot is when anyone tells story of how their fish die of Ich, lament over it, feel bad and whatever....
then does nothing to correct the situation is really such BS.
So for those who got their fish killed of Ich....this time around...QUARANTINE. Be fishless for 45 days. Any new additions should be quaratined. Quarantine. Quarantine. QUARANTINE.
stop feeling sorry. you were responsible for that death.
then does nothing to correct the situation is really such BS.
So for those who got their fish killed of Ich....this time around...QUARANTINE. Be fishless for 45 days. Any new additions should be quaratined. Quarantine. Quarantine. QUARANTINE.
stop feeling sorry. you were responsible for that death.
spoiledcats
New member
A person could buy a fish that already has ich, but shows no outward signs at the moment of purchase, puts it in quarantine, does the necessary treatments, and it still dies. Saying they are responsible for the death is just cruel and unhelpful in my opinion. Besides, everyone in this hobby has made a mistake or two, and shouldn't be condemned. We learn, and hopefully don't make the same mistake twice.
chocolateblnt
New member
Reiple: You don't have to feel sorry because where you live you can just jump into the ocean and get another fish! Lucky S.O.B.
Psionicdragon
New member
i agree to a certain point; however, ick isn't always that easy to cure.
CoralFiend
New member
Like others already stated, when I bring something home, I feel responsible for it's well being. I always feel bad when I lose something, but losses can't always be avoided. So, last year when I lost my heavily stocked 75 to Hurricane Rita, I was pretty depressed about it. Still feel that way. Wasn't anything I could do about it, that's what made it worse. Mandatory evacuation and authorities wouldn't let us back in for a week after the storm. Two weeks with no power. Tank crashes happen, you just hope it never happens to you.
ZoeReef
New member
How you deal with death depends alot on how much of it you are around. If you're never around anything that dies, death is a true shock. It's never fun, but the sting is much greater if you're never around anything that dies. I used to work at a fine restaurant and preparing live lobsters for the chef's was shocking at first, but after a while you don't even notice. You only notice when a new waitress happens to see it and she reacts. I went through a bad string of losing new fish. I lost three out of four and no one could tell me anything I was doing wrong. Water, food and methods all were approved by everyone.
Is a person responsible for the death of a fish? Maybe yes, maybe no. You are responsible for the process. If your process and method is solid and thought through, then you are not responsible. Even the best lose fish from time to time. Eric Borneman had his whole tank crash this year. He lost 15 years worth of work. Apparently someone got in the shed behind his house where some of his equipment was and they dumped out a large percentage of his salt water and replaced it with fresh. He came home to find devastation. Was that his fault? Well of course he could have constructed the shed out of concrete and have hired a security guard...
I think you have to deal with SOP. Standard Operating Procedures. Acclimation good? Food good? Water good? What else is there to do? If the process is good, then IMO, the person is not responsible for the death. If the process is flawed, then we learn and chose not to make that same mistake again.
Is a person responsible for the death of a fish? Maybe yes, maybe no. You are responsible for the process. If your process and method is solid and thought through, then you are not responsible. Even the best lose fish from time to time. Eric Borneman had his whole tank crash this year. He lost 15 years worth of work. Apparently someone got in the shed behind his house where some of his equipment was and they dumped out a large percentage of his salt water and replaced it with fresh. He came home to find devastation. Was that his fault? Well of course he could have constructed the shed out of concrete and have hired a security guard...
I think you have to deal with SOP. Standard Operating Procedures. Acclimation good? Food good? Water good? What else is there to do? If the process is good, then IMO, the person is not responsible for the death. If the process is flawed, then we learn and chose not to make that same mistake again.
On the one hand I understand the sentiment that, "its just a fish". Some people grow more attached to pets than others and everyone, I imagine, feels a loss of confidence or an uncertainty when they lose a fish. It's different with corals because they die slowly so people see it coming for days or even months in advance and there is some emotional preparation. A fish can die suddenly, even from predation or aggression by a tankmate.
Now I kept individual records (over 6300 fish) of every saltwater fish for a LFS (not where I live now) for 2 and half years. I can't release the name or all the details (proprietary) but I can give some perspective on the problem. This store was by comparison I did to ten other stores, number one in sales in the area and diligently held to what they believed were good fishkeeping practices. This included quarantine of visibly sick fish, immediate removal of dead fish, chemical treatment of all fish-only systems for various diseases, bi-weekly siphoning and scrubbing of algae, weekly 25% water changes for all systems, disinfection of nets between use and massive wet-dry filters and skimmer towers. They receive fish from 5 different suppliers and the quality varied widely. Most fish either died or were sold within two weeks of arrival at the store. Overall for the store 18% of the fish died before being sold. When broken down by supplier, 55% of the fish from the worst supplier died before sale. Only 9% of the fish from the best supplier died before sale. This best supplier brought the fish directly from the airport to the store. As a result of my work the two worst suppliers were dropped. The markup for saltwater was typically triple wholesale price due to having to cover these losses and still break even. This store had rather low prices because they sold a high volume. Mark up for freshwater was only double. I’ve seen mark ups of 4-6 times wholesale at other stores. LFS really made their money on the equipment and supplies not the animals.
Sadly many of the fish you buy are going to die no matter what you do. The best way to get new fish to live is to not buy the ones already “dead fish swimmingâ€Â. If you have seen tens of thousands of fish live or die as I have this is fairly easy but even I guess wrong on occasion. So don’t feel so bad if you get one that dies even though you “did everything rightâ€Â. Survival rates could be much higher with better collection, transport, and husbandry practices and most saltwater fish will live for at least ten years if proper care is given. But the industry won’t change overnight.
Now I kept individual records (over 6300 fish) of every saltwater fish for a LFS (not where I live now) for 2 and half years. I can't release the name or all the details (proprietary) but I can give some perspective on the problem. This store was by comparison I did to ten other stores, number one in sales in the area and diligently held to what they believed were good fishkeeping practices. This included quarantine of visibly sick fish, immediate removal of dead fish, chemical treatment of all fish-only systems for various diseases, bi-weekly siphoning and scrubbing of algae, weekly 25% water changes for all systems, disinfection of nets between use and massive wet-dry filters and skimmer towers. They receive fish from 5 different suppliers and the quality varied widely. Most fish either died or were sold within two weeks of arrival at the store. Overall for the store 18% of the fish died before being sold. When broken down by supplier, 55% of the fish from the worst supplier died before sale. Only 9% of the fish from the best supplier died before sale. This best supplier brought the fish directly from the airport to the store. As a result of my work the two worst suppliers were dropped. The markup for saltwater was typically triple wholesale price due to having to cover these losses and still break even. This store had rather low prices because they sold a high volume. Mark up for freshwater was only double. I’ve seen mark ups of 4-6 times wholesale at other stores. LFS really made their money on the equipment and supplies not the animals.
Sadly many of the fish you buy are going to die no matter what you do. The best way to get new fish to live is to not buy the ones already “dead fish swimmingâ€Â. If you have seen tens of thousands of fish live or die as I have this is fairly easy but even I guess wrong on occasion. So don’t feel so bad if you get one that dies even though you “did everything rightâ€Â. Survival rates could be much higher with better collection, transport, and husbandry practices and most saltwater fish will live for at least ten years if proper care is given. But the industry won’t change overnight.
Teremei
New member
Kinda rude of you to use a time like this to push your agenda on everyone. I have kept tanks for 1 1/2 years and have not lost 1 fish to ich, and I have a tang too. Quarantine does not automatically make you the best of reef keepers. Keeping your tank in the best health as possible and having enough room for each fish you put in there, does.
Similar threads
